Trans media watch are lobbying mnhq

The crimes of indecent exposure and voyeurism will simply cease to exist. Any man who has been convicted of these crimes will simply be able to walk in and sit down with a veritable smorgasbord of victims in full view.

They will go to the places they can best get away with it, as they always have. In future this will mean women's loos and changing rooms.

No but it will allow them to legally get into spaces that previously they would have been kicked out of.

It will allow them the power to self identify and intimidate women and girls and there is nothing we can do about it.

If you seriously think that a bunch of pissed up males won't suddenly start identifying as women just because they can on a Saturday night in the pub to gain access to women's toilets you are deluded. If you seriously think that people with perverted thoughts who used to sit at home on the internet to get their kicks won't use the self identification law to gain access to women's spaces without fear of reprocussions then you are seriously deluded.

Those sorts of people will now be classed as transgender, they will have the same rights that your friend and my child have. Your friend will be lumped into the same category as the people who will abuse this self identification which will make life harder for your friend.

Why can't you see this?

AllPartOfThePlan I'm not seeing where any concerns for women, or even acknowledgement that concern is warranted, from any of your posts.
They are literally all about the comfort and safety of transwomen, and us mere woman should stop being nasty and shut up.

And women's safety? We can just stop our "sillly squawking" and happily let in the "one in a million freaks"? How does that even benefit your friend?

Because you are acting like just because of this ruling suddenly thousands and thousands of predators that didn't exist before are going to be climbing into your local gym and your swimming pool changing room and the toilet at the coffee shop and at the pub and the office to try and sneak a peek at your goodies and that is just insane! No one is denying that these freaks and weirdos who want to attack you or flash you or get a look at you exist, of course they exist, I would wager that pretty much every single woman on this site has come across one of them at least at some point. But this ruling isn't going to suddenly create more. They are already out there, they are already trying to get a look at some girl when they can, they are already waiting in alleyways to flash young joggers, they are vile disgusting little cretins who should be castrated and hung drawn and quartered, but this ruling is not going to create more that didn't exist before. You will get a few kids trying it on, a couple of really fucked up weirdos who should be locked up trying to claim they are a woman today, but you're not suddenly all going to be under attack every single time you pull your pants down outside the house. I keep saying, I have been attacked, more than one, I am well aware of what it can be like out there, I could very easily think every single man is a potential rapist, I could very easily scare myself into never leaving the house, but it is just not true, and I refuse to live like that. The majority of men, like the majority of women, are not nasty abusive predators and I do not believe that it is in any way right at all that someone like my friend is going to have her life and safety jeopardised because one in 1 million freaks might try to push their luck.

Because she wants privileged access to space that is specifically provided to ensure that I and my daughter are afforded privacy, dignity and safety. Why should we open the door to someone who simply says "I feel like a woman"?

Well then isn't a very simple and obvious solution to change the certification process? So instead of all the rigmarole currently in place, maybe just a GP could sign a form, or a SW or psychologist, so genuine or gender fluid people can use the bathroom and safety, and the freaks and weirdos who just want to perve can't

This would be ideal all but unfortunately the legislation is going in the opposite direction it is removing all or any certification.

But that doesn't mean that I am incapable of understanding that not all some men are predators or that I am in constant occasional danger because of their very existence.

Fixed that.

Then how about not patronising and insulting other posters by saying we think all men are predators and that we are in constant danger? Because that is gaslighting bullshit. I mean, seriously, how can you confuse an argument that says 'predators exist' with one that says they are all men?

Countess oh hell no. Do you not for a single second think I have managed to just laugh it off. I have struggled seriously for many years and it did massively affect my life seriously and negatively for a long time. But that doesn't mean that I am incapable of understanding that not all men are predators or that I am in constant danger because of their very existence.

I am a woman, a title I hold in high regards, and which I will proudly share with anyone who genuinely wants it.*

What do you mean by "genuinely" in this context?

All trans activists don't want that as it's transphobic.

'MN is a place of tolerance and understanding' - to be fair, All, I haven't noticed an awful lot of tolerance and understanding from you towards women who have been victims of flashers and voyeurs but who unlike you aren't cool enough to just laugh it off.

Olennas why should she have to have a huge operation just to make you feel better?

Well then isn't a very simple and obvious solution to change the certification process? So instead of all the rigmarole currently in place, maybe just a GP could sign a form, or a SW or psychologist, so genuine or gender fluid people can use the bathroom and safety, and the freaks and weirdos who just want to perve can't, or get arrested if they don't have a form, rather than ostracising and endangering everyone??? It's like a teacher saying one member of the class did something wrong so now the whole class has to be punished! I can understand why self certification opens it up to abuse, but I can also understand that the current system is insane and why they don't want to go through that! So isn't that the obvious solution?? Rather than all this nonsense about renaming men's toilets as GM toilets?

All - my view (which I know is not shared by everyone on here) is that when your friend has completed a full transition, including bottom surgery, they will be welcome in the ladies loos. And she should also be speaking out against the people who think it is sufficient to say "today I feel like a woman" and thus get free access to sex segregated spaces, who would pose a similar threat to her as to women.

"repeated suggestions that transwomen are simply sexual predators who want an easy way of getting into the ladies' loos."

Life must be hard without basic English comprehension skills. Nobody said that on this thread or anywhere else on MN.

All There wasn't an issue until the trans activists got involved. Genuine people like your friend could go about their lives.

The activists are fighting for rights which are detrimental to genuine transgender people and detrimental to women.

If you want to help your friend then you should be speaking out against the activists who want to declare themselves as women on a whim which completely minimises what genuine transgender people go through and lumps those who have been this way for years, have therapy, attend clinics, have hormones etc in with the weirdos who want to be a woman for an hour and automatically have the same rights as people like your friend.

In response to the question about toilet reallocation... in large buildings with multiple toilets, some of the men's could become gender neutral. Then you'd have women's, men's, gender neutral and accessible toilets. In smaller places, ideally you'd rearrange to have all single unit gender neutral toilets, with floor-to-ceiling doors, a washbasin etc and opening out onto a public/busy area/corridor. If the building is too old/small/listed/whatever to accommodate this then they'd be an exception to this and they'd have to do the best they could to provide a range of facilities. I'm sure there are places currently that don't have accessible toilets because they can't fit them in.

Phone is playing silly buggers and I'm tired.

Because I know for a fact that my trans-female friend wants to use the woman's bathroom, because she feels she is a woman. She does her hair and make up like a woman, she dresses like a woman, she uses a woman's name. Forcing her to go into the men's room not only deeply upsets and insults her, making her feel like she is not excepted in society, but also makes her fear for her safety, because she does get a lot of nasty comments and looks from people. Bless her, she tries to look like a woman, but you can tell. Forcing her to use the men's room because some random weirdo might try and walk into the ladies claiming that they feel like a woman today is not a good enough reason. She needs protecting, and she needs to live her life to be free to be who she wants to be. You are saying to her fuck off to the men's room because some random weirdo might try and use you as an excuse to attack me. Just man up and deal with it. But if you do get attacked then we will backtrack. you are saying to her fuck off to the men's room because some random weirdo might try and use you as an excuse to attack me. Just man up and deal with it. But if you do get attacked then we will back you up, even though we put you in that position. Oh gee thanks for that! 🙄

For those that have come to the last couple of posts and might be thinking "hmmm, yes, it does seem a bit transphobic around here", may I just point out the fact that seems blindingly obvious to me, but seems like it may not be to others.

Transmen are welcome with open arms in the women's facilities. From me, and I am pretty confident from all the other spartaci on this thread.

Please, all and blue and anyone else nodding along, will you explain how that then means that we think trans people are "freaks" who need to "fuck off" or that we are randomly subjecting trans people to vitriol?

MN is a place of tolerance and understanding.

Disagreeing with a very narrow minded viewpoint doesn't mean people are intolerant at all.

I sometimes feel that I am reading different posts - the issue, as far as I can tell and has been clearly expressed, is not with transwomen but with men who will take advantage of the proposed change in law to self-declaration.

Most women have shared with transwomen in the past, I certainly have, and are quite sympathetic. However, that does not mean that I am happy for the barriers to come down and make it easier for predatory men to access these spaces. As shown in earlier posts, some men will take advantage of this to assault women and girls. If transwomen are worried about being attacked in men's toilets, why the lack of empathy with women who worry about opening up female only spaces?
No one seems to be able to explain why one set of fears is valid and the other is merely 'hysteria', 'bigoted' and 'transphobic'. Why are women's fears so easily dismissed?