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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans media watch are lobbying mnhq

736 replies

BeyondTheHarpy · 17/11/2016 17:35

I know this has already been mentioned in the PL thread, but I thought it might be an idea to bring it to the attention of mners in a thread of its own.

After the PL debacle, there followed a thread in AIBU about toilet. On which this post appeared...
"I'm with you OP and I'm horrified by the transphobia on Mumsnet. I have done some work with Transmedia Watch who are trying to persuade MNHQ to treat transphobia as they would treat any other hate crime. I don't know what MNHQ have against the trans community or why they don't challenge the widespread belief that trans women are rapists in frocks who want to see fannies."

So, yeah, just letting you know that they are (allegedly) on the case with mnhq.

OP posts:
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Crankycunt · 17/11/2016 23:55

If someone identifies as a woman, and they are a woman.

Surely this impacts on them too?

AuntDotsie · 17/11/2016 23:42

I'm increasingly of the opinion that transphobia means not virtue-signalling complete submission to the transactivist version of everything.

abbsisspartacus · 17/11/2016 23:35

no one is saying every transperson is a criminal just that criminal trans people should not be put in women's prisons that a person should have to do more that declare they "feel" like a woman to be one

Amalfimamma · 17/11/2016 23:33

who are trying to persuade MNHQ to treat transphobia as they would treat any other hate crime.

Transphobia? I have of yet to read any transphobic posts on MN. They should be honest about their demands and intentions and write;

we are demanding mnhq toe the line and stifle all debate on trans issues and ban all those who refuse to accept our version. If you don't do this we'll ...... (complete as necessary)

It might actually earn them some respect seeing as honesty is always the best policy and we can see through their shite

kua · 17/11/2016 23:27

The more you lobby, the more you shut down conversations in the media , the more you shout Transphobia helps opens up more eyes and ears but not in the way you hoped it would. Keep on keeping on... thanks

ErrolTheDragon · 17/11/2016 23:26

Inthenick - posts tend to refer to transactivists or TAs not generalisations about trans people.

abbsisspartacus · 17/11/2016 23:18

abbs is still spartacus

lobby all you like

Xenophile · 17/11/2016 23:12

Being trans does not make you objectionable or a criminal.

I wholeheartedly agree, it's why we don't talk about it in those terms.

Being a man in women's safe spaces does make you a potential source of danger to women. This doesn't mean that all men in women's safe spaces are a danger to women however, I'm just not sure how one would square the circle of how one would know that this man is safe, while this one isn't, so it's best to keep them all out.

venusinscorpio · 17/11/2016 23:08

Don't you have any empathy with women's feelings? Or do only trans people's count?

Inthenick · 17/11/2016 23:04

Olennas, the pure glee at the righteousness of the common thoughts of people on here and how the comments escalate feel like a mob. People only use words but it slips and slides into some very dangerous generalisations about trans people.

There are always going to be objectionable people who are trans. There are always going to be criminals who both are trans and pose as trans.

Being trans does not make you objectionable or a criminal.

Speaking about trans people in the way many on these threads do is not right. It's just not right.

In my humble opinion.

venusinscorpio · 17/11/2016 23:04

Great post Blistory. Too true, sadly.

VestalVirgin · 17/11/2016 22:44

I am still Spartacus.

And woe betide the transwacktivists if I ever become a mother.

You may get away with not respecting my boundaries, but try to push this shit on any daughter of mine and you will soon see that I am actually being nice right now.

Thelilywhite · 17/11/2016 20:59

blistory I agree with you re middle class guilt. I work in education , predominantly middle class professional colleagues ,and am constantly having to watch what I say. None of them seem to understand the extent to which born womens rights are being erroded, voices silenced and childrens futures put at risk.

OlennasWimple · 17/11/2016 20:53

Oi, Fresh - leave grammar out of this!! (I agree about Christmas and pushchairs though Smile)

OlennasWimple · 17/11/2016 20:52

Inthenick - can you be more specific? I mean that genuinely: I want to know what are the bits that you find offensive / upsetting

FreshwaterSelkie · 17/11/2016 20:48

Please will you tell us what is horrible about this thread inthenick? Do you think it's unreasonable that women object when we feel we are being silenced? There are no hate crimes being committed here.

And exwife, there are whole rafts of sections on here that I cannot for the life of me see the point of existing, but I am not so rude as to barge in and tell them they should shut up boring on about Christmas, pushchairs, or grammar or whatever. It might bore you, but other people's mileage obviously varies...

As to the lobbying behind the scenes, I am not in the least surprised to hear it, and had suspected as much.

Inthenick · 17/11/2016 20:41

I support trans women and men. I don't support or agree with the majority of what is said on this thread.

I had to say that out loud as my heart sank again reading through another of these horrible threads.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 17/11/2016 20:31

Some great posts here. Thanks all.

Still Spartacus.

Blistory · 17/11/2016 20:27

So how do these organisations plan to stop "transphobia" on MN?

Probably the usual tactics trans activists use. So, lies, harassment, threats, more lies, threats of suicide, more harassment, threats to contact employers/sponsors/advertisers, more lies, threats to dox, more lies, more harassment, and finally, rape threats.

That would make it far too easy for them to be rejected. Trans Media Watch and All About Trans are just two organisations who actively promote training and education of the media. Between them and other organisations, there isn't a single piece in the media involving trans issues that doesn't get followed up. And the follow up is simply charities offering education to the media and they lay on thick the utter horror that trans people face in their lives, how the media perpetuates this horror and how they can help the media get the right message across.

This is a well oiled and well funded machine that is successful because they appeal to the liberal bleeding heart. Organisations like the BBC don't like and can't afford to be accused so publicly of discrimination. It's quite an achievement to be able to influence these organisations and start to colour their output. There's no howling or hysteria as that's left to the twitter activists, instead we have the likes of Paris Lees putting on a show as to how reasonable she can be. We have Mermaids being heavily promoted and won't we all just think of the children.

It's all beautifully balanced and nuanced until the feminists come along and ruin things by pointing out that women have been forgotten about. By then everyone is far too deep into their Memorandums of Understanding and charitable funding to stop and cast a critical eye on the consequences of sacrificing women on the trans alter.

Transactivism isn't just about the deranged postings on social media but about the calm, measured delivery of these organisations who have found that the guilt of the white, middle class is the easiest thing to use against them. We've all been looking in the wrong direction.

ErrolTheDragon · 17/11/2016 20:26

particularly bothered by the propaganda aimed at children.

I'd like to pull out that phrase from that excellent post, because I think this may be one of the reasons why the TAs are finding MN a hard nut to crack compared to other forums or mainstream media. Its mainly composed of mothers. Some of us are avowed feminists, but still more are just very concerned about the impact transactivism is having on children - be it the innocently gender-nonconforming preschooler being labelled as 'trans' to the troubled teenager who's now being fed the trans orthodoxy and steered towards early medical intervention, or the schoolgirls who may be labelled 'transphobic' if they dare to object to a male-bodied person in their changing room .... many of us are not primarily concerned for ourselves, and that's why we won't roll over and toe the TA line.

Thelilywhite · 17/11/2016 20:10

brilliantly eloquent post shiny
Still spartacus reporting in

FirstShinyRobe · 17/11/2016 19:52

If those who call out perceived transphobia want to know the bigger picture of those who have concerns about the transactivist agenda, TalkingintheDark said it best on a previous thread:

"Who is entitled/qualified to define the meaning of the word "woman"?

When I first discovered the trans threads, I was initially baffled by how anyone could even be suggesting that transwomen are actually women, when the biological truth that they're not is so patently obvious.

It took me a while to realise that the argument hinges on the TRAs having assumed the right to redefine the meaning of the word woman. They have decided that woman no longer means adult human female, but "anyone who identifies as a woman, who 'feels like' a woman inside."

Leaving aside the obvious problem that there is actually no definition of what a woman actually is in the TRAs' versions, this is the battle ground now. TRAs maintain that the essence of womanhood is a real thing, regardless of male biology. And in that belief system it is hateful to say TW aren't women.

We have not given our consent to this new definition. We weren't even asked our opinion. Our experience of living as women under a patriarchal, oppressive system for generation upon generation, our experience of battling sexism, being feminists, fighting for equality and safety - it all counts for precisely nothing in the face of the TRAs' assertion that being a woman is a feeling.

So by whose authority did they twist language to make it suit their agenda? Why did they feel entitled to do so, without so much as a by your leave? What makes them think that as people born male (and no, not fucking assigned male at birth, BORN biologically, reproductively male) they are not only qualified but MORE qualified than us to say what it is to be a woman?

Not by my authority, that's for sure. I see this as just another marker on the continuum of male violence against women, where male people take what they want from female people regardless of whether the female people consent or not, because they can. Because even MtTs, far from being the most oppressed group on the planet, are still infinitely more powerful than women.

MNHQ, if there were a group of MRAs campaigning to have DV decriminalised, I doubt very much you would give them any kind of platform, much less a chairing role on the subject of being a force for good. But this bigotry and misogyny goes unchallenged and is even feted and held up as an inspiration - even though it is every bit as malign and dangerous as the "hypothetical" group of MRAs.

Men have been taking what they want from women without our consent since time immemorial. Now, under the guise of "equality" they want to take our very identities and access to all our safe spaces and services and awards that have been created by feminism, by the struggles of WOMEN, as compensation for our inferior status in society. They are even claiming ownership of feminism now!!! And yet we are being cast as the bigots for resisting them; prevented in very many ways from even speaking and being heard."

The toilet issue, for example, is but a symptom of a larger problem. One which has marginalised those feminists that centre women and see that liberation from male violence and entitlement has not yet been achieved. Some of us are very bothered about that. And particularly bothered by the propaganda aimed at children.

MNHQ are in a difficult position. But so have all of those women who have gone before who have stuck their heads above the parapet, stood their ground and effected real change. Time to decide whether to ride on their coat tails when it suits whilst watching from the sidelines as the gains are lost or whether to take a stand. Tough call, given the repercussions either way.

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans · 17/11/2016 19:39

Bullying then.

VincentAmSpartacus · 17/11/2016 19:31

So how do these organisations plan to stop "transphobia" on MN?

Probably the usual tactics trans activists use. So, lies, harassment, threats, more lies, threats of suicide, more harassment, threats to contact employers/sponsors/advertisers, more lies, threats to dox, more lies, more harassment, and finally, rape threats.

QueenLaBeefah · 17/11/2016 19:27

Maybe they are all huffy with us because we all utterly reject that cisgender horseshit?

This is a mega huge website and I can see why they would like to control us but, tough shit, the horse has bolted.

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