Trans media watch are lobbying mnhq

I'm not scared or disgusted by TW. I'm pissed off at arrogant, aggressive, narcissistic,selfish young males (and not so young) who think they can stamp and shout, insult and threaten women and girls into getting what they want. No regard, respect, thought or concern for women bad girls. These makes are refining what "women and female" means. unbelievable!

I've posted this elsewhere too, but I thought we could all do with a somewhat ironic laugh ... you might enjoy this

rejecting-the-gender-cult.tumblr.com/post/131924675632/a-bit-of-levity-after-a-long-day (scroll until you see the video).

Did another AS on All to see if I can find out what her deal is, but she's flounced. Seems like she was getting a hard time on other threads too. Suspect it was her posting style.

Yes, I saw the poster on the 'forced adoption' thread. Odd.

I was going to post a litany of all their anti-woman and dismissive statements (muff in face, pearl clutching, 'sneak a peek at your goodies', 'you're not suddenly all going to be under attack every single time you pull your pants down outside the house', etc.), but it hardly seems worth it.

How are things Monkey? Still thinking of you and your DSD.

Bambam

That's my problem too. As soon I come across transactivists who are entitled, aggressive and male to their very core, I can promise you fear and pearl clutching is the very last thing on my mind.

I'm not scared or disgusted by TW. I'm pissed off at arrogant, aggressive, narcissistic,selfish young males (and not so young) who think they can stamp and shout, insult and threaten women and girls into getting what they want. No regard, respect, thought or concern for women bad girls. These makes are refining what "women and female" means. unbelievable!

I've always tried to be liberal and tolerant, used to argue for transfolk, a good little ally. I didn't have a clue. Now I'm just flabbergasted and pissed off at where we are and where it is going.

Did another AS on All to see if I can find out what her deal is, but she's flounced. Seems like she was getting a hard time on other threads too. Suspect it was her posting style.

I admit, I do find it hard when people are so blind. When they refuse to see implications. I find it fairly difficult to buy into the current ideology at all tbh. The lack of science, the gender stereotyping, the kids, the appropriation of womanhood, etc. The story of Alex Drummond on another thread would be fantastic, if he said he was male and not a woman. I wish it could just be more acceptable to mess about with gender without it being about rights. It's such a shame because it could really be a force for good.

And I feel desperately sorry for you monkey and what's happening to your DSD. It just doesn't work, does it?

People have said they are unhappy about the self identification too many times to count

It keeps getting 'missed'

There is no need for anyone to "climb in through the window", that's exactly the point that you seem to be missing, All! Self-identification means that anyone - literally anyone - can walk through the door, and no one can say anything until the inappropriate behaviour has occurred.

I'm just going to re-post this amazing contribution from TalkingintheDark, because she sums up the issues, I think.

"Who is entitled/qualified to define the meaning of the word "woman"?

When I first discovered the trans threads, I was initially baffled by how anyone could even be suggesting that transwomen are actually women, when the biological truth that they're not is so patently obvious.

It took me a while to realise that the argument hinges on the TRAs having assumed the right to redefine the meaning of the word woman. They have decided that woman no longer means adult human female, but "anyone who identifies as a woman, who 'feels like' a woman inside."

Leaving aside the obvious problem that there is actually no definition of what a woman actually is in the TRAs' versions, this is the battle ground now. TRAs maintain that the essence of womanhood is a real thing, regardless of male biology. And in that belief system it is hateful to say TW aren't women.

We have not given our consent to this new definition. We weren't even asked our opinion. Our experience of living as women under a patriarchal, oppressive system for generation upon generation, our experience of battling sexism, being feminists, fighting for equality and safety - it all counts for precisely nothing in the face of the TRAs' assertion that being a woman is a feeling.

So by whose authority did they twist language to make it suit their agenda? Why did they feel entitled to do so, without so much as a by your leave? What makes them think that as people born male (and no, not fucking assigned male at birth, BORN biologically, reproductively male) they are not only qualified but MORE qualified than us to say what it is to be a woman?

Not by my authority, that's for sure. I see this as just another marker on the continuum of male violence against women, where male people take what they want from female people regardless of whether the female people consent or not, because they can. Because even MtTs, far from being the most oppressed group on the planet, are still infinitely more powerful than women.

MNHQ, if there were a group of MRAs campaigning to have DV decriminalised, I doubt very much you would give them any kind of platform, much less a chairing role on the subject of being a force for good. But this bigotry and misogyny goes unchallenged and is even feted and held up as an inspiration - even though it is every bit as malign and dangerous as the "hypothetical" group of MRAs.

Men have been taking what they want from women without our consent since time immemorial. Now, under the guise of "equality" they want to take our very identities and access to all our safe spaces and services and awards that have been created by feminism, by the struggles of WOMEN, as compensation for our inferior status in society. They are even claiming ownership of feminism now!!! And yet we are being cast as the bigots for resisting them; prevented in very many ways from even speaking and being heard."

It's not about toilets

Yes Elsa - there have been events staged where women and moderate transwomen tried to find middle ground but have been shouted down (literally - I will try to find a link to a video if you're interested) by transactivists. And the moderate transwomen, or truscum as the TAs call them, come in for a whole world of shit which many are too vulnerable to want to handle.

I would rather compromise but if I have to take sides I will go for women, because fundamentally you cannot convince me that biological sex does not exist or that great harm will not be caused to women by denying that.

' So why all the way through this am I just constantly seeing "she has a penis she should go in the men's room tough luck"? '

Because people disagree but what we all have in common is that our viewpoints are considered transphobic and bigoted, as will yours be if you argue for anything other than self identification and no documentation to be required at any point.

I would be in favour of a compromise in which the actual living-as-a-woman transwomen could use women's facilities such as toilets and changing rooms but there would still be an exception for things like personal care to be done by members of the same biological sex, you could still have single sex sporting events, single sex rape support groups. But this is so far from what transactivists would consider acceptable they wouldn't even see it as a compromise.

That is the position that the trans activists have forced the feminists to take.

I never saw a thread on here about it before they got involved.

Trans activists have come out with such extreme views that feminists have had to counteract that.

Unfortunatly the trans activists have forced people to choose a side and, understandably, feminists have had to take an all or nothing attitude to the trans activists all or nothing attitude.

It isn't the feminists on this thread you need to blame for their views on this issue, it's the people who are jumping on the bandwagon of a cause and fighting for rights that are detrimental to women, to your friend, to my child and to all genuine transgender people.

Many people on this thread are happy for transgender people to use a gender neutral bathroom. Problem sorted.

Right, so again, you and I actually agree. So why all the way through this am I just constantly seeing "she has a penis she should go in the men's room tough luck"? That doesn't help.

I never once said someone like your friend needs to go to the men's room.

In fact if you look at my post at 12.42 you'll see that I said my child has used toilets of the sex they present as when there hasn't been accessible toilets.

It is the self certification I'm against.

Elsa right, we agree on something, so why are you fighting that someone like my friend asked to going to the men's room rather than fighting that the certification that needs to change?

Consequences of self identification link again

Having come late and, in catching up, read rather too many stream of consciousness, I can testify to the inability.

of self identification [[https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/man-strips-in-front-of-girls-in-swimming-pool-locker-says-transgender-law-a]]

There may not be thousands of incidents, there may not even be hundreds but where do you draw the line? Do the girls at this swimming pool not have the right to privacy and safety because it's just one incidence? How many perverts taking advantage would it take for you to think that self identification is a bad idea?

I personally think that moving from a rule that mostly succeeds in protecting women and girls to one which will cause greater risk is a bad idea. I think on balance of probability the move to self identification will lead to lots more women and girls being harassed and assaulted and that is not acceptable to me.

It's the self certification that is the issue.

That's what people are saying.

Self certification leaves women and genuine transgender people at a huge disadvantage and puts us all in danger.

Nobody here is saying your friend is a pervert, people are saying that perverts will take advantage of self certification for their own gain

Mole hill, although if it were a Mile high you probably wouldn't see it even then.

You really don't get it, do you.

This is a proper existential threat. If any male who claims to "feel like a woman" is considered a woman, we can't fight for women's rights. We can't even define women's issues or collect data to show that women are disadvantaged.

Mile hill? The mountain is actually fucking there, independent of your frankly astonishing inability to see it.

Because I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Like I said, there may be the odd one, but they're not going to be climbing in every single window if every single changing room and toilet in the country every night. And pissed up blokes on a Saturday night? They are already there!! Clubs and bars have bouncers, girls always go to the loo in pairs or groups, they have attendants, and seriously, are we that week that we can't shout at someone to fuck off any more? Honestly, I don't think it is me who is deluded, you seem to think that everyone is sitting at home just waiting to be able to run into a nightclub toilet shouting "I'm a woman today show us your tits!" and all us poor feeble little delicate ladies won't be able to cope! there are lots of very decent men out there who will also be watching out for us, as they do already, and I'm sure they will be perfectly happy to keep an eye on who is going into the toilet. I honestly think the problem is certification, not demanding that genitals rather than identity dictate which bathroom you should use. I really think fighting that is transfobic and oppressing people like my friend, and that the obvious and better solution would be to campaign against removing certification completely and campaign to require certification but much easier for genuine trans-people as I said above. all through this thread all I have been seeing is "they have a penis they can go to the men's room!". But there is no regard for their safety or their feelings. How is that not transphobic? I understand that you are scared that weirdos will gain access to places, but I really don't think the way you are fighting it or talking about it or arguing it helps at all! I know my friend would be absolutely heartbroken to read this! Seriously, she just wants to take a piss! In a private cubicle with no one looking at her bits and bobs, and she has no interest in looking at anyone else's. I think you are focusing on the wrong issue.

And the bit that really gets me, is there is nothing you can do. He was looking at me funny, he was touching his penis, he went into A cubicle and sounded like he was masturbating. All perfectly legal. Because no 'woman' can be arrested for getting inadvertently aroused.

This is not about common sense. This is not about possibilities. This is not about what you think may or may not happen this is about certain actions being enshrined in law.