LGBT Talks in School

• parents

• parents

If you are genuinely trans-gender, maybe it does start when you're very young. The point is, there needs to be a very specific set of criteria and liking the opposite genders toys isn't one of them.

I can see pounds everywhere peering at their children wondering.

It's such a mess

Thinking a 2 yr old is trans because of what the child likes to play with is nothing apart from a serious case of homophobia

That 2 year old's parents need some social services input/psychiatric evaluation ASAP.

hummus

I've no idea why the focus has shifted onto gender roles specifically. I think that is what is so damaging. There is another thread on here about a two-year-old on a TV magazine programme. The parents think the child is trans. I didn't see the program, but the thread indicated it was just because of gender roles. I don't think gender dysphoria was even mentioned.

A bloody 2 year old.

I'm agreeing with you choc

IAmAmy thanks for that!

If the corner stone of being trans is gender dysphoria and that means that these are peopel who are disgusted by their genitals, then why is it that it is not what is taught in schools?
Why are we going on about 'felling like a woman/a man' when the issue is, 'I cant stand my penis/my vagina'?

After all school is THE place where teaching can happen and in particular, this is the place where you can explain things to children and explain how what they hear on TV/YouTube and whatnot is NOT the reality.
I find it frightening that in this case, school isn't up to the job tbh.

Yes, it really is, because what you wear and do is entirely up to you (with a nod to societal pressures) it's just so regressive to tie that up to what genitals you have.

Maisy I would be horrified if any of my teachers felt there was such a thing as "the personality and mind of a girl". My school is keen on girls being ourselves and developing our own personalities and minds, its ethos goes entirely against such backward thinking in fact. I'm not denying how anyone feels but to explain it as a boy having the "mind of a girl" or vice versa is in my opinion extremely damaging. They should be helped to feel there's nothing wrong with their bodies or their minds, to be free to live as they want in their bodies and not be judged against society's ideals of "masculine" or "feminine" traits. You've also still not explained what you believe "the personality and mind of a girl" to be?

It isn't choc.

Gender dysphoria has been the cornerstone of the diagnosis. The fact that this has been replaced with preferential gender roles, is inexplicable.

I've never been more thankful that both my children are grown up (after a fashion) and this has passed them by. (Despite my youngest son who wore a necklace and earrings every Christmas day for years).

I think that 'gender dysphoria' has replaced dysphoria regarding some physical aspect of their bodies. That being unhappy about 'being a man' is separate from being unhappy about having a penis.

Even so, I fail to see why it's always that woman == !man

I can understand dysphoria - that some part of you isn't right, that you need it changed/gone.

So a man could feel that their penis is wrong, it doesn't belong on their body - but that doesn't follow then that that makes them a woman - it makes them a dysphoric man. They can't know what it's like to be a woman, therefore they can't feel like they are one. All they can feel is that what they have is wrong - you can desire, but not actually understand what it is to have a body part you never had - any more than a colour-blind person can really understand what the colours they can't see are. Even if they have surgery, they'll still never know what it's like to have a vagina, and what I find horrifyingly sad is that we're not honest about that.

I thought that the very definition of transgender was an initial diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

When did that change??? I should think it would be pretty obvious to anybody if a child felt genuine disgust over their genitals and therefore may be trans. But blindingly obvious to everybody that a child simply not conforming to gender stereotypes is just that.

Any responsible talk on transgenderism should include gender dysphoria. But I'm willing to bet those year 7s were not asked how they felt about their genitalia.

Oh I can totally understand wanting to live as a woman or man in the framework of society's unrelenting focus on stereotypes and expectations for men and women. I still don't see how your mind can/can't match your body. It can/cannot match society's expectations but not match your body ? A human being is a whole. Mind and body aren't separate. They are what make the complete person.

Maisy perhaps this is where we differ. I've have felt many times that I do not think or behave as a 'typical' woman. I can well believe men and women feeling like that perhaps on a greater basis. However, I am still a woman. I don't have specific feelings that make me a woman. I have feelings that take me out of the boundaries of a stereotypical woman (as defined by society). Regularly. Maybe that is why we are questioning this dialogue more than you?

scallop this is the thing.

It all comes down the 'feeling like a woman'. I have no idea how it feels to be a woman.
The best that can make me different from a man is the fact I did feel the need to procreate and carry a child. But I am very aware that not all women do and it doesn't mean they are not a woman.
I have also wondered about the influence of hormones, having periods and fluctuating hormones etc... but I am not so sure of their REAL influence re behaviour and temperament etc..
Would for example having a higher level of testosterone make someone more aggressive? A higher level of oestrogen more nurturing etc... And would that be enough to make a difference between men and women, to 'make' someone a man or a woman?

I could understand much better the wish to live like a woman (or a man).

Amelia and Maisy
How do you explain to children what 'feeling llike a boy' or 'felling like a girl' feels?
Are you able to tell the teenagers 'this what the personality of a girl/boy is'?

I fully agree that, within a classroom, you can not say something that would invalidate feelings of some of the teenagers.
In the same way, you dont want to validate feelings that have no basis, the same way you wouldnt validate the feeling of being big/too big from a girl who is anorexic.

The issue I have is that that sort of talk is based on the assumption that boys and girls are different, so different theycould a completely different species. So they feel and think and have a different mind.
Saying that 'a boy can have the mind and personality of a girl' reinforces that idea which isnt good imo.

I have no issue on how to work it in sensitive way btw. And I woud be very curious to see how counsellor/psychiatrist who support teenagers who are thinking about transitioning actually broach these subjects.

I just feel that, in some ways, we are doomed if we support the theories of transactivists but are also doomed if we dont (as we take the risk of annihilating teenagers who DO have some major issues with defining who they are)

I have no idea how it what it's like to feel your body and mind don't match. How should my mind match my body ? My body is what it is. My mind and feelings are what they are. What should my mind feel like as a woman? And why does a man feel he knows what that should be?

Maisy what would you say to a child who asked what the mind and personality of a girl was?

AmeliaLeopard - You seem to be closer to me: shocked and disgusted at what happened in the OP but very aware that it's a topic that does come up in school, its difficukt to deal with sensitively and that it's not our place to run our opinions at school.
You put it much better than me.