Cat calling

And yes IME it does shock men when they realise their loved ones get this. Which is another reason women often downplay it.

" is there any chance he genuinely thought he was giving you (or more likely your husband) a compliment ?"

Well if he did think that, he can fuck off because he was DEAD WRONG. That's the point, pear, he assumed his need to give a "compliment" overrode my need to just get on with my fucking day without his input.

This is not tricky stuff. It's being explained very clearly for you, but you're just not getting it.

That was to grow, though I hope was clear from the context.

Cross post, but you're not getting it. Whatever the man thinks, the net effect is the same for the woman being harassed in the street.

I just ran my husband through thirty years of street harassment, or at least the highlights of it that I actually remember - the worst stuff. The flashing, the being wanked on, the times I was threatened, the times I was touched.

He is horrified. He said "I'm amazed you leave the house". He's aware that women are harassed in the street, but he'd never joined the dots to think that I was a harassee - I think he assumed that we are decent people, he doesn't harass women in the streets, therefore I probably didn't get harassed. And as blokes go, he's pretty enlightened (wouldn't have married him otherwise). We'd just never talked about it. He knows now.

Did you read freshwater's post, grow? Try listening a bit more rather than explaining why we're wrong (I deliberately didn't use the word "mansplain" because I'm trying to engage with you in good faith).

Freshwater - I do understand what you are saying. Men are told by some women that they like getting compliments. Men see women go to an effort in dressing in a way that reveals parts of their body, makes their hair look pretty or whatever. You were with your husband, the guy obviously was not trying to pull you - is there any chance he genuinely thought he was giving you (or more likely your husband) a compliment ? I'm not defending it, but that is what some men think, that women's appearance is for their benefit, they think if you are showing off your legs (but perhaps you had loose trousers on, I don't know) you are doing it for them. I honestly wouldn't know where to begin on explaining to them WHY women go to such efforts to look good, because I admit I do not understand it. I would say that it was not for their benefit specifically, and I do understand also that its not to have "nice tits doll" shouted at them and that if they didn't go to any effort they might get abuse from the same men for looking ugly.

sigh....don't agree = "minimised". There is a spare seat next to me, rather than sit in it a women chooses to stand. Despite being "grim" and a "fucker" I am aware that sitting is more comfortable, especially on a moving bus than standing is. You think it is a benefit to me that people do not wish to sit next to me, because they are scared of me. And what's with all the personal insults that get banded about on here ? I believe I have not directly insulted anyone - shall I report these posts ? I believe I would have been banned if I spoke to you the way I have been spoken to.

I'm not sure if my husband is aware of the amount of street harassment I get. Because a) mostly it doesn't happen when he's with me and b) because women often don't talk to men about it , because it's so commonplace and everyday that it feels like saying "Hey, did you know I breathe air? How about that?" and c) even if we do talk about it, we often minimise it or laugh it off. I know I did. The first time it happened when my husband was with me, some guy shouted across the road that I had great legs and he wouldn't mind a go, I LAUGHED IT OFF, because I was so embarrassed and I didn't want a scene. Husband is not alpha male type, but would have said something to the other guy if he'd have thought I was upset.

I don't think I ever bothered to explain to him that I'd deliberately minimised the situation so as to defuse it, because it's second nature. It started when I was thirteen years old, and I'm now in my mid forties and I still get it. Maybe I'll explain to him what happened that day, and how the background of thirty years of this explains how I experience the world. Could be an interesting conversation.

What a surprise, you have minimised my examples, despite asking for them, and ignored Pan's.

What a grim mindset you have, pear. Yet again.

Your tone is horrific, growapear. Patronising and dismissive plus expecting women to explain everything for you..

I didn't call anyone a fucker though. Nor did i suggest you were rude or patronising, what you do is called playing the man not the ball.

win praise from the girls

Ah yes, what all men want eh ? .... I kind of expected this was what you were really getting at.

Taxi drivers are not advantaged greatly as I see it by a fear of men by women. Women already choose to request female drivers because they don't trust men.

A women who is too frightened to sit next to me so I get two seats, woot, what a treat that is.

I dunno why I bother actually, because I know you will say that by having any opinion about it I will be making it about ME. I think now is a good time to call it a day here, thanks for the posters who have engaged, I will think about what you have said doesn't mean i have to agree with it.

Thanks venus

And yes, also great examples from Yonic.

It's in the bones.

That got me, pan

Yonic those were great examples you gave of benefitting in subtle ways at the expense of women. I was trying to think of something similar but couldn't articulate what I wanted to say.

No Pan, I think that's a pretty good example actually.

It's naive to think people will not enjoy the benefits that inadvertently accrue to them. But an awareness of that, is a beginning.

Ah well, I tried. Once a goady fucker, always a goady fucker. Utterly pointless to engage further.

Another eg. Currently I am doing a lot of work with adult care leavers and the impact of being in care when young as lasting effects using the psychologically concept of "shame" where they feel 2nd class due to something outside of their control. It's in the bones.
Generally the employment outcomes are horrendous. It should be a national scandal imo but it isn't. They have no voice.

When it comes to "competing" with you in a job market they have no chance. You didn't cause it at all but you do benefit from it. Unless of course you are also an adult care leaver.

A messy eg I know but there is some equating going on there by way of illustration?

In the article linked, 85% of women have experienced street harassment. I guess your wife is in the 15%, like Joanna lumley

I've only ever met one person in a wheelchair working in my profession (which is also heavily male dominated)

I've almost certainly benefitted from unconscious bias against disabled people at some point. I don't feel accused by or defensive about that statement. I think that situation sucks and would not look to defend able bodied people against complaints from disabled people on this point.

And the oppression of women as a class will definitely accrue you benefits. Diverse and wide ranging.

Gender pay gap. Domestic duties. Promotion potential. Men (and women) listening to you because you're more credible. Blah blah. Numerous and undeniable. Street harassment is just a symptom.

I find it hard to believe that you can't understand that your wife might have had one set of experiences, and other women will have had different experiences. Your wife sounds very fortunate not to have ever experienced any sexism in her life to date, or ever seen it happen to another woman, or read or seen it in the media. That's fantastic for her. But that doesn't mean other women's experiences are not true. Especially when there is clear evidence to show that there is an issue.

Oh come on grow are you seriously suggesting you accrue no benefit from the immediate subjugation/embarrassment/ dent in a sense of self esteem and placing of women at a disadvantage in a global sense?
Bit of Yonic's eg and some of Amys.

I can see how it can take awhile, it did for me - again not as Dervel put it - not personal to you.

A sort of Macbeth thing "would not play false yet wouldst wrongly win".

Your tone is horrific, growapear. Patronising and dismissive plus expecting women to explain everything for you then when we take the time to do so, patronising and dismissing everything further, twisting words and seeking argument. The "interest" and benefit as the point was originally is that they come across as nice, win praise from the girls and are seen as decent. Even if they are nice, in this way they have been able to display decency by doing something they only have to due to threat male violence.

And Datun has put it excellently.