Cat calling

please tell me how i should grow, act and dress in order to become invisible, pizan. i'm all ears.

because it has happened when i'm fatter, thinner, dressed up, in jeans, in sportswear, bundled up in a huge coat. it's happened when i'm going to work, in the street, on public transport, at my workplace. it's happened across twenty countries over thirty years. and you're saying i've brought it on myself with how i look, act and dress??

wtf?

Oh sillage, such wit !!

Rufus

Are you saying as you grow, dress differently, and act differently you are treated differently?

When i was very much younger, and slimmer and prettier rather than the statuesque mature woman of the world exterior i have now

I got lots of complements..from friends and other random women Saying "i like your dress" or "that hairstyle really suits you"

I also got loads of complements from random men...whistling, beeping car horns, yelling and one memorable time riding his bike into a lamppost...oops nearly forgot the lip licking complement

Now i am older (and fatter and tired looking) i get loads of complements from my friends and other random women...they like my outfit or my hair or the new eyeshadow

And none from men, except my dh, my daddy and my lovely 13 year old ds

Weird that

"And what's with all the personal insults that get banded about on here ?"

There are no personal insults here, just people complimenting you in ways you don't understand.

Perhaps if you re-read the thread you'll see that what you falsely perceive as insults are actually expressions of respect for you and your smart wife who chose such a kind man to spend her life with.

It's my opinion PizanFan, as I'm sure you know. Please do tell me that I'm wrong, and exactly why you know that's not the case. Please do keep it nice and simple in case I don't follow your complex arguments

Ooh it's like a tag team here.

Men who do it do so because they don't see women as equal people

Based on how many years of scientific male psychology research is thi comment based?

Why are people attacking growapear? I've only re read this page, so if he's said something stupid fair enough, but you all seem to be telling him what he and his gender thinks.

I'm really glad you haven't ever been cat called Lass, it's good to know that at least some women haven't experienced it themselves.

"And, on what planet is "I'd like to have a go" ever a compliment, rather than threateningly sexual harassment."

Well, quite.

My point is that it is intimidating to be on the receiving end of that sort of street harassment. Men who do it do so because they don't see women as equal people, they see them as lesser, as decorative, inconsequential, there to be used. "Signalling to a husband" is part of that attitude, as is spoiling for a fight (by insulting the husbands "property"? Is that what you meant?). Even thinking they're trying to compliment the women by shouting sexual comments at her shows that they don't think of her as equal. They are not thinking about the woman at all, only about themselves.

And, on what planet is "I'd like to have a go" ever a compliment, rather than threateningly sexual harassment.

Sorry Lass that wasn't to you!

yonic you naughty thing, I see what you're up to! (and I agree by the way )

His purpose, grow, was to put me in my place. It always is. Either I'm a fuckable object, and I need to be reminded of that, or I'm worthless and I need to be reminded of that, too. He hadn't noticed my husband, so it wasn't for his benefit (and it was also yelled in a language I speak but my husband doesn't, which is also how I was able to defuse the situation - "what did that guy shout?" "Oh, some random shit, doesn't matter, I guess I've still got it, eh? ha ha ha")

Maybe it's because you are willing to make any excuse you can about why men sexually harass and add in a few digs about women while your at it.

I've never experienced cat calling. I wasn't even aware of the term until I joined MN.

If it is relevant I'm 57 and have lived in cities since I was 18.

Well you came back tonic, hey ho indeed, if people are posting stuff they maybe want me to read ( not saying they are doing specifically for my benefit) then it seems rude to ignore it, although in my case it simply appears that whatever I post is rude and misconstrued as me being in favour of harassing women on the street, despite my repeated assertions that I have never done it have no plans, this far, to start at this age.

The first sexual harassment I remember was when I was 12/13. It was summer and I was wearing shorts. Nothing special. Just shorts and a t-shirt. I was also pushing my bike up a steep hill (one of many reasons why I was wearing shorts on that day). A bloke 30-40 yrs older than me felt it necessary to 'complement' me on my legs and how I would break hearts when I was older.

I wasn't dressed for him. I didn't know him. Yet supposedly I "looked good". How, that day, was I supposed to not look good growapear? Perhaps stay indoors?

Women are not here to be judged by you.

speak

I know that, yes....but the sort of man who would shout sexually aggressive remarks across the street clearly does not. He may, as I say, have thought he was signalling to her husband that approved of his wife. Your contention is that his only purpose was to make her feel shit and all I'm saying is that this may or may not have been what he wanted. Perhaps he was looking for a fight ?

Feel free to report me if you think I'm being an arse, Pear.

I thought you were going though. Hey ho.

But surely you know a compliment is not done by shouting at someone in the street? And it doesn't matter why or if women spend a lot of money on what they look like (many don't btw), men still shouldn't shout things at them as they go about their business.

Absolutely, venus.

There is that element of nurturing men's feelings. And it's hard to talk about these things without having to shore it up in Not All Men, for the sake of protecting hurt feelings like grows who doesn't think he should be lumped in with the nasty men.

Sorry to go back a bit (RL got in the way) but grow: You're the one making the leap that anyone who doesn't follow any advice you might give should be "blamed" if they didn't agree with you, and yet I'm the one who twists things. I said the absolute opposite of that. But hey ho.

And no you didn't just disagree with Yonic's example. You disagreed and minimised.

Do you truly think that this guy was giving her husband a compliment and how would that even be better??? She isn't her husband's property. Unless of course you see women as just an attractive appendage to men? From your subsequent comments I'm thinking you might.

If the guy had meant it as a compliment a) he wouldn't have yelled it across a street and b) he wouldn't have used the expression "have a go". That is treating someone as their sexual object. And even before that why did he think it was OK to interrupt Freshwater's day without invitation when she was minding her own business?

In fact your whole response to Freshwater is women blaming shite.

Lots of money even..

Exactly Selkie. The man's intentions behind what he's done are immaterial. The effect is the same whether he thought he was being complimentary or revelling in being an arse.

I will admit that my thoughts in women spending lots of men and time on their appearance and that some women do like getting compliments on their appearance is probably confused, but I also know that I would never make any sort of comment about a women other than my wife's appearance. I don't believe I'm trying to tell anyone they are wrong to feel anything Venus.