Cat calling

I never declared myself to be decent.

So women are utterly powerless? Well how about you help us out a bit then, as a self professed decent man?

Growapear, you do realise that is often given as "self-defence" advice to women by concerned authority figures on how women can protect themselves from rape.

Advising young women (schoolgirls) to "tool up" because they face such danger from men, is irresponsible. It would invite blame on the girls who got attacked without having weapons for one. That is exactly what you would tell me if I were to suggest it. Perhaps you agree with my comment about what amy should do if she really is carrying around makeshift weapons such is her fear of men/boys, but you can't bring yourself to admit it.

Why would you think men have a right to harass women?

I don't think they have a right, but you think they have no right to shout at people, but they have loud voices - why shouldn't they have the right to use those voices to direct abuse at people ? Who's going to stop them ? The only reason "men" are not able to do whatever they want, is because "men" will stop them. You have pretty much no right to anything really without that.

I think what gorwapear is saying is that men have the right to converse and initiate conversation with anyone.

No - I wasn't saying that. I was saying that our rights are given to us and guaranteed as best they can be, by men.

Datun

Which signally fails to take into account the 90% of victims who have been raped inside their home. Telling these people they have no need to fear, because the chances of it happening outside are far less is ridiculous.

I don't get why my (much) earlier idea to issue advice to women to avoid having personal relations with men is also ridiculous ? I still don't get why any of the women who fear men so much would be inclined to pursue personal relationships with men, invite them into their home ? Its not like they have to. So for someone of Amy's age - if you think men are as rotten as you make them out to be, avoid personal relationships with them, it's really simple.

What is it about FWR that tends to attract trollish posters like dog poo attracts flies?

Seriously - there are so many good conversations that could be had if we were not deflected by having to do basic things like ... oh, I don't know... defend our basic humanity or argue against (il)logical posts or explain that we don't need men's permission to have opinions.

Grumble.

Has Pizan answered this yet...?

The men who Amy has described didn't have any supervisors, and some moved to verbal insults when she didn't respond.

How would you empower her?

fresh noooooooo!

"Men are not inherently bad, some are, just like some women are, treat everyone as an individual!"
More victim-blaming style inversions here! We have women reporting street harassment and we're not supposed to notice the overwhelming perponderance of males as the perpetrators because? Surely a flawed statistical analysis of the data here........................

I treat women as less of a risk to myself than men, because that is justified by the figures! Nothing personal, just plain ole Bayes Theorem.................

So no stats, no science, no evidence and a deletion mentioning 2 women's initiatives which I read and they outed no-one and you're not prominently involved with anyway.

What a waste of time.

Ive go to go &I see a man about a dog

This would explain some things

Which prominent feminist do you feel embodies your approach to feminism, Pizan?

I ask as the way that you have explained your stance on here bears little relation to any school of feminism that I am aware of.

And no, I do not need to speak to men to understand street harassment. I'm already well aware of the range of reasons why the poor misunderstood little flowers do it.

It's a compliment!
What are you, some kind of feminazi?
He's just telling you he fancies you!
You should be grateful
You should look at it from his perspective
Why do you bother getting dressed up if you don't want people to look at you?
He's impressing his mates
He's hoping that you fancy him back

It's all self-justificatory bullshit, and I don't care. I am not a victim, so will you please can it with that phrase? I am not weak, or passive, or whatever else it is you think that women do to bring this on ourselves. I get it because I am the kind of woman that a certain type of man likes to bring down a peg or two. There are many of us. And our perspective is valid. We've done the thinking on this.

Anyway, I can't hang round here all day, I've got to go & see a man about a dog.

That was in response to pizan who mistakenly posted a question to me on this thread on another thread.

I am pro women and anti street harassment. I think that is perfectly clear from my posts. I just have very different beliefs about it.

Datun

I did mention a few initiatives I was involved with earlier in the thread, but had to ask HQ to delete as I realised it revealed too much personal information. Sorry I can't be more specifc, but they are pro women initiatives, that I am not prominantly involved with (high profile).

PoC is what I have been requested to use to describe PoC by PoC so I'll carry on using it out of respect to them. BAME is also acceptable to PoC in the UK, so I might use that as well. Out of respect.

It doesn't matter how you spell it, we all get whats meant. My quick type spelling is atrocious, noone cares (or they shouldn't).

Datun

I agree with you and am actively working toward solving the problem! There we agreed on something lol

Still waiting to hear how ??

Oh mannnnn!!!

I try not to use words i cant spell

It makes for long posts full of short words

Rufus

Fraid not...

Misogynistic!

People of Colour isn't 'trendy'. It is a well utilised expression and is used by prominent anti-racism groups. It does tend to be used in America more than the UK, I grant you. We probably use BAME more here.

I'm happy to use whatever terminology you like - what do you feel is the correct terminology?

Yes, I should talk to men before deciding if being harassed by men on the street since the age of 14 is wrong.

This is my point IAMAMY, 3 billion men on the planet and you don't want to discuss the issue with any of them? How about male rape victims, gay men who have had the same experiences as you, male doctors who treat sexual assault victims...

You already consider men the enemy, and if you continue to do so you will lead a sad, fearfull life! Men are not inherently bad, some are, just like some women are, treat everyone as an individual!

PS as a side note, can we not use the term people of colour. I find it offencive to group billions of people and hundreds of differing races into one box, there isn't white and PoC, there are a thousand beautifull versions of the human race, can I ask that we have the respect to use terms that are correct and not trendy? Thanks

Have i spelt it right?

I didnt say it was mysogonistic

I cant even spell it

I emplore you to go and converse with prominant alternative feminists, non femenists and men and empathise with their stories before making your mind up!

Yes, I should talk to men before deciding if being harassed by men on the street since the age of 14 is wrong.

Incidentally my dad and boys I'm friends with think it's horrific, and actually listen.

As for growapear his desperation for an argument, apparent desire to protect the right of men to harass women and girls and complete lack of any empathy or concern for how it makes many of us feel or awareness of the effects even having been told is abhorrent.

Scallops

How could a man, sexually harrassing another man in prison be homophobia, it's a homosexual act!

I'm not sure who said cat calling was misogynystic now, maybe rufus, but perceiving women as weaker is not misogyny! Women are biologically weaker than men, thats fact, so viewing them as easier targets is perfectlty rational.

In your opinion, how do we stop men from percieving women as easier targets?