Cat calling

If we say that cat calling is bad, and use a murder stat that highlights the death of women at 1 every other day, as xenophile did, then we are not doing justice to the women who are overwhelmingly killed by someone they know, or doing justice to the men who die at near twice the rate

Eh?

Murder is bad therefore nothing that is less than murder can be called bad

Men kill more men than they kill women therefore you mustn't mention the women killed by men without mentioning the men killed by men because... er... I mean men kill loads and loads of people and women don't really kill that many people but... er... there are more male victims of male violence than there are female victims of male violence therefore the female victims are just a lot less important?

This thread reminds me so much of when I used to go on pro choice boards in 2005 and have to argue with neckbeards about stuff that was only ever going to be theoretical to them.

I am really not sure where you are getting your information on single mothers and sons that commit crime and mother nurture

i would be interested to know though so please do share

Enthusiasm

Thats a great point, reasoning for murders is key. If we say that cat calling is bad, and use a murder stat that highlights the death of women at 1 every other day, as xenophile did, then we are not doing justice to the women who are overwhelmingly killed by someone they know, or doing justice to the men who die at near twice the rate.

The link between crime, and sexual behaviour in adolescant males is linked to single parent/mums, and mother nurture. We have a role to play obviously.

*What else is the right question to have! We should be discussing that don't you think?

If we agree that all men aren't evil, but cat calling is unacceptable, then the uestion must be framed squarely on cat callers, and how to deal with it when it happens, whilst simultaneously understanding why men do it, and reeducating them.

Are we at least agree'd on that?*

This is like pulling teeth.

What are you taking about bingo

So women have to force men to stick around are they to be blamed for children feeling angry and rejected by their fathers

Or are you suggesting that these women were poor mothers if they were better role models themselves all would fine in the world

It's not about who the victims are it's about who the perpetrators are. Men kill women. The fact that men also kill lots of men too does nothing to reassure me that I should not be wary of an unknown man when I'm alone. Women very rarely kill other women, therefore I'm much less wary of an unknown woman.

Datun

What else is the right question to have! We should be discussing that don't you think?

If we agree that all men aren't evil, but cat calling is unacceptable, then the uestion must be framed squarely on cat callers, and how to deal with it when it happens, whilst simultaneously understanding why men do it, and reeducating them.

Are we at least agree'd on that?

The system currently is skewed, and women need to fix t

Spit it out Piz.

You 5 point plan.

Women are most likely to be killed by their partner or ex partner (often most in danger when they leave)

Men are more likely to be killed by a stranger or having got into a fight and also man men are killed due to crimes they have got involved with and by other men

So what can women do to change all that what does the scientific evidence say

Because it's about power, not so much about the victim, the victim is generally the weakest dear in the herd, which is women currently.

So report cat callers to their boss.

What else ?

Single mothers to boys that do not have a positive male role model in their life

Mmm where are those fathers

BINGO! Thats exactly my point, we are all in this together! The system currently is skewed, and women need to fix that to help us succeed, but victimising us isn't the way to go.

Anyone who uses statement such as 'Men are...' have lost the audience (Men and women) before the discussion takes off, that is my point.

Single mothers to boys that do not have a positive male role model in their life

Mmm where are those fathers

It's about the effect of power ON women.

So why, when there is an absence of women do men sexually assault men?

Because it's about power, not so much about the victim, the victim is generally the weakest dear in the herd, which is women currently.

Noone should be a long term victim, tell 30 million women they are victims and you will get 30 million victims.

Speak

If Xenophile wants to use stats to back her argument, using a stat that proves men are nearly twice as likely to be the victim is hardly the way to go, don't you think?

Because we are a huge part of society and society is broken!

You know what research says about mothers influences on male behaviour? Or single mothers results when raising young men with regards to crime rates?

We are all in this system together, and we all have problems, we have to look to fix all problems, taking responsibility collectively is the only way forward.

It's about the effect of power ON women.

"You're not making sense, now you want to talk murder statistics in a discussion about cat calling? " do you really not understand why Xenophile has mentioned those stats? Really?

Datun

'and finished me off nicely by saying catcalling had nothing to do with women.'

You get why this would make me think that though, as your opposing my view that cat calling is about power, not solely about women?

Since when is it the job of women to stop men being dicks to eachother??

Xenophile

My racism? What racism is that? Thats a disgracefull accusation, and pretty ignorant comment!

You're not making sense, now you want to talk murder statistics in a discussion about cat calling?

OK lets talk murder, last year 336 men and 186 women were murdered, so your right, in the UK women are being killed every other day, as opposed to men who are killed at nearly 1 per day.

In an honest discussion, you can't call men the devil, but fail to mention that most victims are men!

If innapropriate sexually explicit behaviour was solely to do with subjegating women

I'm not saying it is!

If I was to claim that I feared all muslims who openly practice Islam, because you can't prove to me which just practice Islam, and which will commit terror attacks then I would rightly be called xenophobic. It's exactly the same thing.

And anyway I don't fear all men. I don't even fear all men on building sites. Doesn't cross my mind until they start the process.

Datun

If innapropriate sexually explicit behaviour was solely to do with subjegating women, then why, in the absence of women, do men still do it to other men? (Prison system).

"we just have to empower women enough so they can deal with it correctly"

In general, with codes of conducts for construction workers etc, harassment by men whilst they are working on a project with a clear way to.complain has gone down, I believe.

The men who Amy has described didn't have any supervisors, and some moved to verbal insults when she didn't respond.

How would you empower her?

As I said previously I had 2 men sent from their jobs for shouting off a roof, by calmly and civily explaining to the foreman that if he didn't deal with the unacceptable behaviour on the spot, I would ensure his boss did.

Well yes, that's something I completely agree with.

Also in answer to the OP I think cat calling IS becoming less socially acceptable. That why it's getting a lot of air time/debate. It's been mooted as a hate crime in Yorkshire (I think it's Yorkshire). Women are becoming more likely to call it out as it gets more questioned.

No, it is not the same thing at all. We are not socialised to fear Muslims from birth. Muslims don't kill two women a week in the and a woman a day in the USA.

The two things aren't even passingly comparable and you are grasping at straws to even suggest they might be. I actually find it quite offensive that you would bring your racism and compare it to women's rational wariness of strange men behaving in this way.