Cat calling

Strewth grow Do you see as holding Dervil accountable or pan, or libprog (I hope I've got that right and you're all men?).

You're not accountable for all men but it would be less irritating and derailing if you understood that BECAUSE you belong to the same class you should try and get a little more understanding, leading to empathy.

I think if I was a women, and they have posted on here before, and I was being made to feel like pretty much every other women was the object of sexual comments from men, but I wasn't....I dunno how that would make me feel....it feels strange to me that if you are telling me pretty much all women are hassled on a regular basis from age 14 and to a habit changing and life limiting extent, and my wife hasn't been....why would that be ?

In actual fact the comment about her looking at me like I was an idiot was not in reference to this thread or the subject of cat calling in general.

Not at all! Just thinking about the train thing.

I heard from a male friend that when men use urinals, they naturally space themselves as much as possible. Also see this in eg park benches - people tend to leave a space until the bench gets full.

That's why I would find a man sitting next to or very near me in an empty carriage worrying; social norms would space us out and he had chosen to ignore those.

I would find a woman doing the same to me disconcerting but not worrying unless she was also, say,clearly drunk.

I would wonder if getting up and moving would prompt an aggressive response (since said man had already been anti-social norms by choosing to sit near me, obviously a bit different if the train suddenly emptied at one stop)

growapear you derailing a thread about street harassment to centre on men's feelings is getting boring? It got boring ages ago.

You're dismissing experiences by your comment on your wife's reactions to you talking about some posts about women's experiences.

You keep going on about how not all men harass women, how you don't, how men you know don't, and about how unfair it is for anyone to suggest men should stop street harassment seeing as it's men who perpetrate it. Seems you just object to women talking about misogyny we face.

It's quite common for women to throw other women under the bus for a variety of reasons, sadly. I don't presume that's what she is doing, she's entitled to her view on it.

And saying that my wife "doesn't get it" but you all do, now who's being dismissive ?

Grow, I think Dervel was right on the money when he said you have a lack of empathy. You are doing a classic notallmen.Your wife's view on street harassment does not cancel out other women's views. Women are not a hive mind. The point about street harassment is that it is unsolicited and many women hate it, it makes us feel objectified and intimidated. That should be enough for any decent man to want to help.

And you're upset, because you think that you are somehow being held responsible for all the men who DO do it

But I am being held responsible for it.

Datun thank you very much and that's not patronising at all! I'm lucky to have good friends I can discuss these things with and a school which nurtures that, and being able to post here and talk about feminism with so many women is great. I'm restricting my immature side to settings away from this board

grow. Women, and feminist men, can spot a dissenter a mile off. I realise you might be just having your eyes opened, but have you watched the TED talk? Seriously - at least do that.

YonicProbe. No worries. Have I said anything wrong tho? Happy to be educated.

You minimising it and creating arguments on this thread is exasperating and dismissing these experiences is just unpleasant.

Can you give me an example of where I dismissed someone's experience please Amy ?

"well done to you all, pats on backs all round for not being misogynists"

Please can you give me an example of where you thought I deserved a pat on the back for not being a misogynist or knowingly associating with men who hate women Amy ?

This is getting somewhat boring.

Thought you were datun, just got a bit confused!

IAmAmy. I've been wanting to say this but ages, but I'm struggling not to sound patronising. You are a brilliant poster. I can't believe you're only 16. Your conviction is admirable. Your logic is undeniable. And your determination to stick with the point is impressive.

amy is right grow. Just because you don't do it, and don't associate with men who do it, and your wife doesn't get it doesn't mean it isn't there. And you're upset, because you think that you are somehow being held responsible for all the men who DO do it.

The more encouraging response would be 'bloody hell, I never thought of it like that. That is absolute shit. I'll do my damnedest to call it out if ever I do see it'.

Oh wow, you don't harass women on the street and as far as you're aware no men you know do, well done to you all, pats on backs all round for not being misogynists, your work is done and who cares if women and girls have to suffer it constantly.

YonicProbe. I'm on a mission to convert ONE poster on here. Just the one - every little helps

.

growapear you are certainly responsible for your own behaviour, which at the moment is devoting a considerable amount of your time to arguing with women who are posting about street harassment. As for the insinuation of your comment about how your wife looks at you when you tell her about some of these things, I find it pretty enraging you're doubting our experiences. I've suffered street harassment since I was 14 and I am no different to any of my friends in this. You minimising it and creating arguments on this thread is exasperating and dismissing these experiences is just unpleasant.

YonicProbe. Yes! Why?

Thing is grow Women can often collude in it unwittingly. All the men they know are 'nice'. Hell, all the men I know are nice and I'm certain I have colluded in it. It's only when I began reading, and reading, and reading that the penny dropped.

I've been lucky. Doesn't mean I can't see it.

Would your wife walk across a deserted car park at night if she saw a lone man sitting on a bench? I doubt it. She probably just doesn't ask herself why ?

Datun

i actually dont; know any men who cat call, or who think that men who do e.g. cat call at young girls are anything other than dicks, so there's not a lot of word to be spread there.

It's interesting, because you see I would not generally sit next to a women ahead of a man incase she thought I was up to something.

Datun, you are female, right?

growapear. I'm sure she does. It's very uncomfortable. And if she hasn't experienced any kind of male violence, it's very likely she won't get it. Take it slowly.

Shall we all, from here and now, use street harassment not cat calling?

I've no idea who the cat is even supposed tobe in cat calling - the recipient or the perpetrator. But it's the wrong phrase and doesn't convey the seriousness and unwelcomeness.

And for the Joanna Lumleys of this world, they can call it street flirting, and we can guess that's not an emcounter that ends with an insult

YonicProbe I never even thought of that!