We will see a MTF transsexual US President before we see a female one.

Sorry Yellow, but you're wrong, the vast, vast majority of them take no hormones and have no surgery. Things are very different these days and your information is out of date.

We should remember that transwomen are often victims of male violence too.

So what? Men in general are often victims of male violence. Doesn't mean they belong in women's spaces.

What if a FTM trans person was in a female only space, would that bother you, someone biologically female but dresses and acts male and considers themselves male?

As there is no way to "act male" except displaying male privilege and molesting women, yeah, of course it would bother me!
As studies have shown that the violence displayed by MtT AND FtT individuals is about on the same level as that of men, I do think they should use different facilities. (Which does, however, not change the fact that FtT individuals not have penises and thus cannot rape and impregnate women. Which means that they are considerably less of a danger than MtT.)

What doesn't bother me is women who wear trousers, have short hair and don't perform femininity using the bathroom/changing room/ shower appropriate for their sex.
That includes those who "identify" as agender and possibly also those who identify as transmen but haven't undergone any hormone treatment or surgery.

Yellowrose87, These two sites contain many examples of males dressing in wigs, skirts etc and either claiming to be women, or using it as a disguise in order to enter women's spaces. As well as examples of males being arrested for indecent public behaviour, wearing said items.

outofmypantiesnow.wordpress.com/2013/10/28/when-is-90-not-substantially-all/

allisonslaw.wordpress.com

Will watch that in a bit.

I don't know how else to get across that there is more to being trans than putting on a dress, quite a lot of them take hormones, have surgery etc so maybe that's one way to determine genuine need?

We should remember that transwomen are often victims of male violence too.

What if a FTM trans person was in a female only space, would that bother you, someone biologically female but dresses and acts male and considers themselves male?

Yellowrose87

No-one would ever dispute transwomen wanting their own spaces. The problem for women is their presence in women's spaces. How can you tell the difference between a genuine transwoman and a predator in a dress? If you can answer that, you will be the first person, ever.

If you have even the smallest question about what I mean, here's a link.

Copy it into YouTube, I'm not sure it works just with Google.

I honestly would be more than willing to engage with you after you've seen it.

Most rapists are men, they look like men, dress like men, identify as men...
Please lets focus on male violence and not the trans bogeyman (woman)

The few trans people I have met want their own spaces and who can blame them...

No, Yellowrose, I will not show you evidence. If you were not so damn lazy, you could find it yourself. Google exists. Or if you would just think for a moment, then you would realize that rapists lie about everything, so they would obviously also have no qualms about dressing up as women.

Rapists risk prison "just" to be able to rape women, and you think they would not engage in crossdressing, which is a fun activity that forms part of many stag parties? Oh please. You are so naive it hurts.

I'm not saying transwomen are biological women, I just think what people were born with in nobody else's business. Please show me evidence for men dressing up as women just to be able to assault someone.

I don't want to spend my Saturday evening obsessing over who does or does not have a penis, but you lot have fun.

Yellowrose : GCSE biology ........>>>>>>> this way

Yellowrose87, did you know that the vast majority of transwomen retain their penises? Identifying as a woman might be what the transwoman desperately wants, but consider how it would pan out, if it was legalised across the board.

Vulnerable women and children everywhere would not be able to prevent someone, anyone, with a penis being in their space.

'caring so much about what is between people 's legs is kinda a misogynist thing to do...'
What is between a person's legs is hardly unimportant, if its a penis that person is a man however they might feel. I agree with the op a transwoman is much more likely to get to the top than a mere female sadly.

Of course. And they will be hailed as the first 'female' president. Finally a step forward for females, proving sexism doesn't exist, and so on. Then after having a male in a dress there would be no reason to ever elect a 'woman' again.

My money is on Michelle Obama...:)

Or what about straight men who don't want to sleep with someone who is MTF trans? Have they being accused of transphobia?

Or is it just women who are transphobic when they don't want to sleep with someone who is trans?

Lesbians have been called trans phobic because they don't want to sleep with someone who is MTF. Do you honestly think being accused of being trans phobic because you don't want to sleep with someone with a penis is okay?

What about gay men who don't want to sleep with someone who is FTM? Do people accuse them of being transphobic because they don't want to sleep with someone with a vagina?

Birth certificates are unneeded - for the vast majority of adults it's obvious if they are male or female.

Past that, it's an honour system - and if a man can't be trusted to follow an honour system then I definitely don't want him to have the right to be in my changing room!

It matters not a jot whether or not you accept them as a woman. What matters is that they are biological males.

Oops, bold and italics fail there

because they are women...

No they're not.

They might think* that they are a woman. They may want^ to be a woman. However neither of these things mean they actually are a woman.

I could decide tomorrow that I'm going to identify as a flying pink sparkly unicorn. However just because I think I'm a flying pink sparkly unicorn doesn't mean I actually am one.

Am I supposed to ask to see someone's birth certificate, Venus? Medical records, maybe, before I except them as a woman?

Going back to the OP... given that a lot of the sexist rejection of Hillary arose from the misogyny of conservative christianity, it's hard to tell what would happen to a trans candidate, because I don't think either Jesus or Paul had anything to say about transgenderism. If MTTs achieve their aim of being accepted as being actual women then their place would be subservient to men, wouldn't it?

TBH I don't think the US will have anything other than a straight gender-conforming man as president for decades.

Why do you think they are women? Where is the cut off, or don't you have one?

"They have also pointed out that, unlike other transgender inmates who have been held within the Scottish prison system, Herschell has never previously lived as a female." sounds like an unusual case,would be interested in a follow up. Also says he is being segregated from other prisoners for the time being...

Of course an individual trans person could harm someone,not saying they are all perfect.

I didn't say I was in favour of mixed wards, I'd be happy to share with a transwoman, because they are women...

It's really not a distraction, it's important. Don't tell me how I'm allowed to do feminism. Transwomen are male and their problems have little in common with women's. Women are entitled to not want men in their spaces.

"A transwoman is in far more danger being in a male prison"

Yellow, and what about the actual women in a women's prison? What about the dangers they face? You genuinely think that they should have a convicted rapist in with them because the rapist might be in danger from other men?

And if you are saying that men in prison are a danger to vulnerable prisoners, then surely the women are in danger from a man in their own prison? Your point was all about making it better for the transgender person and not even considering how this further disadvantages women. That is very telling about your mindset.

Yellow, this man is alleged to have raped two women. He started to identify as a woman only after he was remanded in custody.

link

And you are saying that transgender people pose no risk to women.

You are in favour of completely mixed hospital wards? Well, that is an unusual stance. The NHS is under great pressure to get rid of them (except for critical care of course).

The sport one is not difficult. At all.