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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

We will see a MTF transsexual US President before we see a female one.

118 replies

DragonHorse · 10/11/2016 21:02

I'm entirely serious. My money's on Caitlyn Jenner.

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Elendon · 14/11/2016 19:30

Melania Trump is not a natural born citizen of the USA so therefore she can never become POTUS.

originalmavis · 14/11/2016 18:48

Deffo not born in America!

ClaudiaApfelstrudel · 14/11/2016 14:22

it wouldn't surprise me if Melania Trump ran either tbh

YonicProbe · 14/11/2016 13:06

"I find the touting of Michelle Obama as a likely democrat candidate a bit hmm tbh."

Me too. As Datun says, she has no interest, and of course Hillary became a Senator, made a bid for the nomination 8 years ago then became Secretary of State. So she wasn't starting out from a 'former FLOTUS' platform.

Datun · 14/11/2016 12:45

I think Michelle is on record as saying she's not interested in ever running for president.

ErrolTheDragon · 14/11/2016 12:19

And Bernie Sanders - thats the other big problem, the US electorate is unlikely to vote in a socialist. Its hard for a European to comprehend the depth of aversion many Americans have to socialism.

ErrolTheDragon · 14/11/2016 12:15

I find the touting of Michelle Obama as a likely democrat candidate a bit Hmmtbh. She's undoubtedly a great person but she is famous for being the FLOTUS. Maybe if (like hillary) she moves forward into her own political career for a decade or two, but I really think the US electorate has signalled it doesn't want so much of the political dynasty thing any more. I'd much rather see a woman who owed nothing to a man (other than as a supportive partner) standing (like Thatcher, May, Merkel and others I guess)

ClaudiaApfelstrudel · 14/11/2016 10:33

re: the topic, if we were to see a MTF transsexual as president I'd hope they would be elected because of having decent values rather than somebody like Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner who killed someone while talking on a mobile phone

I would have been much happier to see Bernie Sanders as president than I would have Hillary Clinton. I don't think however this is the last chance women will have to be president, it wouldn't surprise me if one of the next democrat nominations was Michelle Obama for example.

Hillary won the popular vote so there is no reason a woman cannot win the presidency. She just wasn't that likeable it seems to me.

VestalVirgin · 14/11/2016 10:24

Sorry, was talking about Donald Trump there, somehow forgot to mention that.

VestalVirgin · 14/11/2016 10:23

Having just heard a bit about Pence on Today, it seems unlikely anyone other than a straight man will be the POTUS for many years now.

Most of those new MtTs identify as "lesbians", so that doesn't rule out a trans"woman".

To be honest, I wouldn't put it past him to allow males access to women's bathrooms, changing rooms, etc, too. He has already said something along these lines, and he is male and his loyalty is to males, and he knows trans"women" are male.

Elendon · 14/11/2016 09:24

Yes Errol, men and the other sub species of humans. Children are seen as sub species along with women.

Elendon · 14/11/2016 09:22

And what Ripples said.

The wearing of women's clothes (whatever that means) for men should not be a problem. Women's clothes can be very attractive as are the shoes. Personally, I only dress feminine on special occasions and I'm not very good at it, I can't wear high heels. I do like hair and nails though. Plus I bought the most gorgeous denim dress and it's so fab with my now wavy shoulder length hair and knee length boots. I feel great in it.

I think men are way more conservative in their values than women.

ErrolTheDragon · 14/11/2016 09:19

Elendon - yes, its been 'men and non-men' since antiquity hasn't it?

Elendon · 14/11/2016 09:14

Males are very protective of their spaces. The number of times I've heard at airports (I fly frequently), men say to their children that's the men's toilet, you need to go in here (either female or male).

It is males who pose a danger to transgender women.

When I last visited my aunt in hospital there were two patient toilets both were non gender specific! The ward was mixed with male and female bays. Bizarre!

There will be a female president. Everyone keeps saying that. It will happen. One day.

ErrolTheDragon · 14/11/2016 08:40

Having just heard a bit about Pence on Today, it seems unlikely anyone other than a straight man will be the POTUS for many years now. Sad and that it really is going to be necessary for everyone else to find as much common ground as possible. The dominance of conservative Christianity in the US may 'solve' the bathroom issue in some states there but not in a good way. The abortion rights of transmen will be thrown under the bus along with those of all other women, regardless of whether they're described as being for 'women' or 'people'. The zeitgeist in the US is liable to influence beyond its borders.

Urgh. So yes, ripples stance which is one which allows for mutual support and constructive engagement is really welcome just now.

OlennasWimple · 14/11/2016 02:15

Ripples - thanks for posting, I'm so sorry you have had such unpleasant encounters. And I agree with your analysis of the problem and the solution (tackling the men who cause the problems)

Cisoff · 14/11/2016 01:56

Thanks for posting, Ripples.

kua · 13/11/2016 22:17

Ripples, thanks for posting. It is good to hear from another point of view . And I am also sorry to hear you are having a shit time.

WitchingHour666 · 13/11/2016 21:55

ripples101, it is good that you accept that you are male, and do not insert yourself into female spaces. Sadly males do sometimes threaten and assault other males if they do not conform to the male sex role. The reason for this of course, is because males want a clear way to distinguish which sex is the dominant sex, and which is the submissive sex. When this becomes disputed, by males assuming the female sex role, other males get angry. As it threatens the illusion men have told themselves; that the hierarchy between males and females is destined.

You are right to combat males aggression towards them, sex role non conforming males need to challenge males instance that performing the female sex role makes them less of a man. Ultimately males need to stop claiming they are "presenting as a woman" or are "trans" etc, and everyone should call them by female pronouns. As that only further entrenches males (and therefore society's) belief that males and females are destined to fulfil dominant/submissive roles.

The main problem is most males are taking the easy way out, by claiming to be a form of "woman". And since males are socialised to believe females should care-take them, as a mother would her child. Many men think it is women's responsibly to solve these real problems males have with other males. Of course females are raised to prioritise males over ourselves, many Mtt's exploit this aspect of females socialisation. They call us "unkind", "bigots" etc, when we prioritise females and refuse to prioritise males, this guilts many women into giving into them. It needs to stop, and males that are doing it need to be called out on it.

DeviTheGaelet · 13/11/2016 21:26

Swearing about men is acceptable on the feminist board Wink
God it sucks. I really feel for you.

Datun · 13/11/2016 21:09

This is not a woman's problem to sort out. Yet it does serm to me that it is women who are being asked to deal with and accommodate it.

Yes. But unfortunately, I can't see this going away any time soon.

YonicProbe · 13/11/2016 20:00

"If we live in an accepting world, then let's begin by encouraging men to be accepting, because in my experience, it's men who need that encouragement. "

Makes sense.

ripples101 · 13/11/2016 19:55

Separate facilities would be too difficult to do, not practical and expensive.

If we live in an accepting world, then let's begin by encouraging men to be accepting, because in my experience, it's men who need that encouragement.

This is not a woman's problem to sort out. Yet it does serm to me that it is women who are being asked to deal with and accommodate it.

Fuck that. Sort the men out who have the problem. I know 100% that I would feel a lot more safe being myself if it wasn't for men and how men react to me.

I'm actually sick of it all. Men get excused all the time yet they are the ones who cause all the fucking problems.

Sorry / excuse me for swearing

Datun · 13/11/2016 19:17

And I meant to say too it's bloody awful that you get treated like that.

Datun · 13/11/2016 19:16

ripples101

Would you mind me asking if you're in favour of separate facilities for transpeople or non conformers who are uncomfortable?

And, if so, what is the objection to using the accessible facilities?

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