Why do girls let the boys get away with it?

Also given the sexual assaults which are rife in mixed schools now I can't imagine boys are too bothered about issues of sexism.

growapear I highly doubt it. Knowing plenty of boys my age, who are apparently well educated and go to very good schools, they're not shy about expressing their misogyny and general contempt for women/girls. Doubt being accused of taking over would bother them much.

Perhaps boys are also keenly aware that they will be accused of taking over if the speak up ?

It is, I'm very lucky. No chance of getting through without doing a lot of work at my school!

Yours sounds like a great, academic school Amy.
Thinking back to my school days, there were certainly many girls (and boys of course, it was a mixed school) who were quite happy to do bugger all for their entire school lives.

deydododatdodontdeydo there are certainly some girls who are clear leaders and take charge from the start, but it's rarely done in a way which excludes anyone, from what I've experienced. I think because we've done group work since Year 7, guided by teachers to a lesser extent as time has gone on, we've learnt how it should be done. My school is quite academic so most (if not all) of us want to get involved and show what we can do too. The vast majority wouldn't sit back and those who tend to be the leaders wouldn't want them to either, I don't think.

I knew as I pressed post that you would pick up on that, Lass.

It is a behaviour I have seen, as have others I have talked to, as have people on this thread. That better?

Struggling to see how this is a feminist issue ? If it were the other way around it's absolutely certain that posters would be saying it was sexist as well. I think some people prefer to sit back and let others (who seem to enjoy it) organise things. Generally speaking any statement along the lines that "women organise stuff and get things done, men less so" is obviously false.

Wow, OP has been treated harshly, probably because of the title.
Did your son sit back and let someone else do the work because they were girls or because he doesn't need to - he's already achieving, he's a teenager (teenager in laziness shock horror) or because they stepped up and took charge so he let them?
In my experience of group work, someone usually steps up to lead and others step back and let them.
I would explain to him that him doing this with girls can become a pattern for many people's lives (lazy manchild) and he should take care not to act like that.
I'm interested if at iamamy's all girl's school, how the group dynamic works? Do you still get those who "take charge" and those who sit back?
The other thing that happens in mixed groups is someone steps up to lead (as these girls did) and another challenges it and you get a power struggle. Your son challenging the girls in this way would be also seen as him exerting his dominance over the girls.

Do "we" all know them?

I know people who are a joy to work with and others who complete pains who do the minimum they get away with and a few who give the impression of being helpful whilst at the same time doing their best to undermine management , hinder and sow dissent. The three categories certainly do not divide by sex.

Off the top of my head the laziest I've ever had to deal with was a man and the most devious, manipulative person I would not have trusted an inch was a woman. Currently I have 2 employees,1 of each sex (1 shortly to be an ex) who are in the doing their best to hinder catergory.

Sorry, posted too soon. I like the word "manchild" because I'm a fan of a bit of transactional analysis, and it's very descriptive of a set of behaviours that place a man/boy in a child role and force the woman/girl into the parent (specifically mother) role. It's not a good interaction for anyone. The child role is disempowering for the boy/man, and the parent role is exhausting for the woman. Adult/adult transactions are the ideal (though I appreciate that in OP's case, we aren't discussing adults).

I'm sure they will tell the teacher your son did very little work.
We had this issue at uni so we explained to the lecturer that certain people did no work.
Tbh the lecturers aren't stupid, they can tell when someone's not contributed and will mark them less accordingly.
Your son needs to get involved and be an equal part of the group. He doesn't need to be asked. They aren't his keeper.

But I didn't meet the female equivalent, Lass. I met the loafer that I described in my post. So I don't know what phrase I would use, as I am racking my brains to think of a time that I've needed it. I've certainly had workshy female team members, but I've never come across one that felt so entitled to my time and energy while they coasted. I take it that you take exception to the word "manchild"? I quite like it. We all know them.

You said earlier that these girls are around the C/D mark and your son is more on course for an A. They've obviously taken responsibility for their education to achieve the best they can. Your son needs to do the same.

It sounds like he's doing that if he's on for an A, in fairness. Good exam grades don't fall out of the sky.

A levels aren't compulsory. I'd tell your son he'd be doing the work for his own benefit.

I was borderline between two grades for one of my A level subjects & needed the higher grade to ensure my place at uni. So I made sure I did all the assignments & revision. I didn't care what the others were doing.

You said earlier that these girls are around the C/D mark and your son is more on course for an A. They've obviously taken responsibility for their education to achieve the best they can. Your son needs to do the same. If he wants an A he'll have to work for it & it's good preparation for uni where you need to be self motivated.

It certainly touched a nerve for me, it shot me straight back to a training course I was on last year, where I had to misfortune to be paired for a project with a lazy, entitled manchild

How would you have described a lazy female colleague? Or do they not exist?

Of course it would be great to give girls more skills and assertiveness. But, the bigger and more important issue is addressing the behaviour of boys and men. Because all the skills and assertiveness in the world are no good if the people you're using them on don't care about changing their ways!

You don't have to solve all of society's problems with this on your own. You and your DP are responsible for one little part which is your son. Just keep chipping away at his behaviour and thought processes. It's easy to be a theoretical feminist ally, but a lot harder to actually give up your privileges. Challenge the teachers/school if you see casual sexism. Any small steps will help.

This sounds awfully like;

• woman does all the childcare / housework
• man does nothing or only what he is asked to do
• he is not proactive
• woman says 'why don't you do more' (if she says anything at all)
• man says you never ask me!

Now I think I know where it comes from...

If your DS is quite happy with this, then I revert to my original point that you cannot make him 'get it'. In my experience, you are banging your head on a brick wall trying to get a man who is invested in his privilege to 'get it' if it means putting himself out.

All you can do is set your own boundaries.

I asked my DD how she would organise a task in geography and she said it depended what it was, what people were good at and how the group worked together. Her answer was longer, but boys/girls didn't come into it. Until asked, when she said some of the boys in her class would not bother, so she would probably not rely on them.

But op, you've said you don't want to talk to the teacher as teacher is busy enough

I do think you're getting a bit of a rough time here, OP - the way you had phrased it originally might have contributed to that, but I also wonder if it just touches a nerve for all the women here who've had men freeload off their work, slack, take advantage and never think twice about it.

It certainly touched a nerve for me, it shot me straight back to a training course I was on last year, where I had to misfortune to be paired for a project with a lazy, entitled manchild. He didn't bother to listen to instructions, he expected me to have done it, he brought nothing to the task, he checked his facebook and texted his friends in the allocated task time. Then finally he blew up at me because I hadn't explained part of the task clearly enough - that the instructor had explained two or three times in the introduction - and started screaming at me.

The instructor took me aside and explained that Jamie (let's call him Jamie, that was his name), just needed a bit of gentle encouragement. I told the instructor in no uncertain terms that the encouragement would be coming from him and not from me, and that I would be completing the task alone. He was most put out. Then Jamie decided that I didn't want to work with him because I was homophobic. I was speechless (I am not, and never have been homophobic).

It's hard to know what to say to make boys buck a cultural trend. They have to want to do it, because it's fair, but how can you inculcate that?