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Original poster

The Glass ceiling, really?

59 replies

Pizanfan · 08/11/2016 22:39

I have lurked here for a while, but havn't really had summoned the courage to post until now (I have noticed a lot of new posters asking for people to be nice, or kind etc).

I can't seem to keep this to myself anymore, and my OH dismisses my attempts to bring the subject up...

Hillary Clinton, playing the righteous feminist, and building a campaign on 'love' but knowing nothing but hate. I keep hearing prominant feminists talk about her being the great hope, but her history, actions, and words are so anti feminist I get frustrated when I hear this twaddle!

Apologies if you are a fan, I mean no offence, I just feel like this issue is going to burn me up inside if I don't get it out, and I suppose I am hoping for reasons I am in part blind to any good she is doing, or maybe even some agreement from people here.

Not the greatest way to introduce myself to this section (It is very intimidating here btw), but rant over, please let me know if i'm reading too much into this issue.

Thank you

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My2centsworth · 09/11/2016 13:53

As far as I can see Hilary is a feminist not that it matters now. I mean if Sarah Palin were to win in the future I am not sure, in spite of the historical significance of her being a woman, if it could be viewed as a pivotal feminist moment just as England having female queen rulers did not mean anything if feminist significance. I am holding out hope for Michelle Obama once this madness ends. We will be back though, who ever it is that sets down that gauntlet.

YuckYuckEwwww · 09/11/2016 11:26

If shes a feminist icon then feminism is in trouble again missing the point

If she'd won, it would have been an "iconic feminist moment", that doesn't = calling Hilary herself a feminist

Childrenofthestones · 09/11/2016 06:06

Wow. Brexit all over again.

Marisa444 · 09/11/2016 02:06

Its not looking good anymore :-(

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/11/2016 01:14

ThanksPhil !

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/11/2016 01:12

I'm going to stay up until about 2 but it's looking good for Clinton-fingers and everything else crossed!

Original poster
Pizanfan · 09/11/2016 00:47

Garlic

You are right, due to Bill's behaviour she has put up with a lot, but then she also defended him in the assault cases, and ensured real victims couldn't come forward.

I am interested in her 'proven track record' though, couldyou please highlight her track record?

If shes a feminist icon then feminism is in trouble. You realise that the US system isn't democracy don't you?

Out of interest were you crazy excited when May was sworn in as prime minister, because I was meh!

Glass ceiling means a system that blocks certin groups from getting the most important jobs, if May is the leader there cannot be a glass ceiling, % doesn't come into it.

Wow!

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PhilODox · 09/11/2016 00:46

LassWi - I know it's not really the subject of the thread, but it's so nice to see someone voice what I think of Sturgeon and her actions (and far more eloquently than I could).

garlicandsapphire · 09/11/2016 00:34

I heard a profile from one of Bill Clinton's old political staff describing Hilary. He said that she has built up such a protective shell around her, to shield her from all the vitriol, continuous politically motivated investigations (none of which ended up in any crimes being detected) and no doubt, the hurts inflicted by her husband's infidelities over many years. It was probably the only way to survive and continue in public life. Unfortunately, this has meant that she appears guarded and secretive, lacking authenticity and she probably is so guarded that she can no longer react with real openness and heart. And probably, it does mean she is more secretive than is helpful for public trust and confidence. Rare glimpses - like when she cried in public saw her ratings soar.

Having said that, she has a proven track record, expertise and serious policy expertise and insights. None of which her opponent has, who in addition, is a proven liar - he simply makes things up. (Look up what he said about the republican contender Rubio's Dad - he was with Harvey Oswald just before he shot JFK. Bizarre, big fat ludicrous porky pies!)

So I understand why some people dont trust her - I think I don't really like her because of that protective and brittle shield. However, I can't for the life of me see any evidence why she is an anti-feminist or indeed not to see her as a feminist icon. Why would it not be a significant landmark if the largest democracy on earth voted for a woman? It certainly was for Obama's election. When its just normal for women to be voted Prime ministers or Presidents and we say 'meh' because its so boring - only then will we be truly equal. Okay so Iceland has the first parliament to accurately represent the gender make up of its population - we and the US are still miles behind. Only 17% of the House of Representatives in the US is female and 28% of parliament in the UK. There's still a glass ceiling, dont be fooled.

Original poster
Pizanfan · 09/11/2016 00:14

Mizzemma

You may need to re read the manifesto, they stated clearly that a 2nd independance referendum was not the focus of the 2015 campaign. And claimed that they would oppose an EU referendum, and support a strategy that enforced the UK remaining in the EU if one member state voted to remain. That clearly didn't happen so she went full 'look at me' mode.

Trump actually has a lot of policies, I know because I have spent hours reading them, I don't like many, and I don't like him, but thats no excuse.

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LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/11/2016 00:13

Lass pushing their own agendas is what politicians are elected for.

Oh then why is a poster on here claiming Sturgeon is running the country?

Sturgeon has zero interest in what is actually good for Scotland. She has displayed utter contempt for the result of the Independence referendum - "once in a lifetime "? Who'd have guessed they were talking about a hamster 's life - span.

YonicProbe · 09/11/2016 00:09

"Apologies if my phrasing offended you, "

It didn't offend me. I found it strange, given your opening post.

Hence me posting that I found it strange, not that i was offended.

Hope that clears things up.

Nighty night.

MizzEmma · 09/11/2016 00:07

The SNP manifesto specifically included a pledge to hold another referendum if rUK voted to exit the EU and Scotland did not. So yes, they did vote for it.

I would suggested that the Clinton campaign has said that Trump is a misogynist because he quite clearly is. Besides what else are they going to attack? He has no policies!

Lass pushing their own agendas is what politicians are elected for.

Original poster
Pizanfan · 09/11/2016 00:03

Slippydippysoap

May I ask what specifically she has done well in the last 30 years, I'm not claiming that she has done nothing, but it's interesting to hear others opinions.

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Original poster
Pizanfan · 09/11/2016 00:00

'Why can't people separate the fact that it WOULD be good if we had 3 prominant female leaders: May, Clinton & Sturgeon, as that is in itself significant'

We? pretty patronising not to consider Merkel, Reddy, Bures, Szydlo, Syogren, Solberg and co who are all western world leaders!

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Original poster
Pizanfan · 08/11/2016 23:55

Again, I'll apologise for not replying to most people, I had no idea people would post this quickly...

Pallisers

So by the Trump 'punishment' quote, you are meaning when he said that IF abortion gets banned in the US, and is found illegal, will women who break the law get punished? Do you believe I am a pro life activist or something? Far from it, but if you're going to attack Trump just attack what he actually says, there is so much stupidity that misquoting him isn't necesary! How the hell have I become a Trump defender lol? I hate the moron, but you have to be honest!

You are right, the Clintons are the most investigated couple in politics, and no criminal convictions have stuck, but when did I say she was a criminal? I dislike her, and am worried about who she really is. Although if we talk facts her desemation of Clinton's (Bill) assault allegation victims is dark, very dark and pretty anti woman.

As I said previously, I hold Hillary in regard to the current political climate, compared her to opposition such as Sanders, and the current president. Isn't that fair?

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Slippydippysoap · 08/11/2016 23:55

Oh dear. Oh dear.

I reckon what with her having been running governments sucessfully for my entire adult life we might just be able to trust her to continue doing it.

What in her voting record don't you agree with? Was it the tiny percentage of times she voted slightly to the right of Bernie?

I am genuinely afraid for American women if she is not elected.

YuckYuckEwwww · 08/11/2016 23:53

Why can't people separate the fact that it WOULD be good if we had 3 prominant female leaders: May, Clinton & Sturgeon, as that is in itself significant
Regardless of whether they are themselves good
it is still good that a woman (maybe) can! Having never had a woman get that far before!

YuckYuckEwwww · 08/11/2016 23:51

It IS important that America has a female president rather than a long line of only men
She does not have to be perfect or even close, because neither were many of the men who preceeded her

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 08/11/2016 23:50

As for Nicola Sturgeon "disrupting Scottish life with her look at me routine" you do realise that she is First Minister for Scotland? That she's busy running the country?

Many people in Scotland would question that Sturgeon is "busy running the country". She's very busy pushing her own separatist agenda.

YuckYuckEwwww · 08/11/2016 23:49

This thread just shows how a woman is expected to be the very best kind of person a politicain can be in order to be considered worthy of the title of female politition

Whereas a man just has to be the better out of whoever he's running against at that time.. unless he's running against a women, in which case he's fine if she has ANY flaws, regardless of how many he has

Original poster
Pizanfan · 08/11/2016 23:46

Mizzemma

I have been reading manifesto's, I have been watching complete Rallies, I have researched political designs, I have read legislation proposed by Clinton, and legislation rejected by her. I have seen fact checker websites, and then conducted studies on those websites validity. I have studied mainstream media bias, and followed polls. Please don't get the impression my opinion is based on anything but a lot of work, a lot of effort, and a lot of not wanting to find what I was finding.

Have you read Clintons social media on overdrive in the last few weeks? It's concentrated around the fact that Trump is a mysoginist, buffoon, dirtbag who will nuke anyone that looks at him the wrong way. Both campaigns are disgracefull.

Also, no, the Scottish people did not vote SNP based on a 2nd referendum, they were voted in months before the UK voted to leave, and on that very day she got in front of every single camera that was showing a redlight. She didn't wait for 60 million people to digest the groundbreaking news, she jumped at the chance to add division at a very sensitive time in the countries history.

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Showmeagain · 08/11/2016 23:45

Amelia those little troofers like to get in there early!

My2centsworth · 08/11/2016 23:44

Pizan that meme didn't influence what I thought about Clinton and Trump. It just succinctly puts together in a single phrase just how this campaign has gone. Don't worry, my critical thinking skills are holding up just fine. But they can be honed a little better watching the events unfold over the next number of hours rather than on here so I am going to leave you and the agenda to it.

OlennasWimple · 08/11/2016 23:42

I'm going to re-post my post because I don't think you've answered my questions:

I'd be interested in hearing more about why you feel this way about her: what specifically leads you to conclude she is duplicitous, for example?

But I confess that you lost me when you wondered what the big deal is about a female POTUS - do you really mean that you don't understand why this is so important?

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