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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Glamour Magazine allows transwoman to redefine feminism

491 replies

MrsJamin · 04/11/2016 15:50

Call yourself a feminist? Our transgender columnist Juno Dawson's here to see if you really pass the test

And calls women who don't "TERFs". Thanks, Glamour and Jo Elvin, thanks a lot.

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StatisticallyChallenged · 06/11/2016 11:04

I love that Juno's "day in the life" starts with "getting my Chihuahua out of his house for a morning cuddle." There's nothing inherently wrong with chis, but talk about going full on Paris Hilton stereotype.

8am "It's very hard to feel like a woman when you wake up with stubble." - but perfectly possible to feel like a woman when you wake up with a cock (and presumably, on occasion, morning glory?)

8.10am "If I don't want to look like Jesus, I need a LOT of makeup. How I envy any woman who can get away with a bit of lip Vaseline and a dab of mascara" - we can all "get away with" this, if getting away with is defined as looking like we look naturally.

9am "I'm at the stage in my transition whereby if you don't look too closely you'd probably think I was a 'regular' woman.But who are we kidding, I'm tall and leggy and wearing a ton of makeup so OF COURSE people are going to stare at me. Women get stared at, why would I be any different?" - I really beg to differ going by your photos, sorry. You're not being stared at like an attractive woman gets stared at (filled with sexual intent), but because you look different. Should we (as a population) be more accepting of different? Hell yes. But it gives you no insight in to what it is like to be stared at as a woman. It's more akin to the way you get stared at wearing a fancy dress costume. And as for "who is she trying to kid, answer "no one"" then why are you spending hours trying to hide your beard?

2pm "Cisgender people are not responsible for educating anyone about gender, transgender people, apparently, are." Right, just no you egotistical eejit. Firstly, there's not just "cisgender and transgender" there's also "don't believe in gender", and those people have been educating people about gender for decades. See, for example, Germaine Greer who you were so quick to ridicule. But non trans people aren't going to be able to educate on what it feels like to be trans since we're, you know, not. Just like a trans woman shouldn't try to educate on what it feels like to be a woman since you're, you know, not.

5pm - "Yep, it's time to shave again because my face is getting stubbly" - if you're not trying to kid anyone why are you shaving again, and taking up the bottom half of your make up isn't a skill, it's a makeup wipe. If you can't remove makeup from your chin without removing it from your eyes you're doing something wrong.

10.30pm. Where the hell do I start with this one, really?
"Take the mask off, peel off three layers of control underwear" - if your makeup feels like a mask, there's something wrong. And no woman wears 3 layers of control underwear - the most I've ever worn is two (spanx and an underbust corset) under a wedding dress. Most days I wear none, and that's normal IME.

"It's exhausting, because being a woman is exhausting. I have all the regular issues - stupid shoes, retouching makeup, white van men trying to lure me into sex." Those are not the regular issues of being a woman. Those are issues associated with performing femininity (excluding the white van man thing which is an issue of male entitlement.) They are not the same thing. You don't have to wear stupid shoes to be a woman - I wear heels at work, but walk in flats. Retouching makeup? Don't like it don't wear it, fixed that issue for you.
The regular issues women face (not all woman face all of them): periods (unpredictable bleeding, awesome), discrimination, fear of assault from the physically stronger and larger male sex, sexism in the workplace, the lions share of caring responsibilities - or the expectation that we'll have them resulting in discrimination anyway, pregnancy, childbirth...not shoes and retouching make up.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 06/11/2016 10:50

So here is someone who is very trendy - a trans woman - and highly invested in artificial femininity. It makes sense Glamour would want to give space for this type of view. Ugh to unglamorous feminism, that won't sell so much beauty products.

Exactly - very well put! Feminism was untouchable when it was about actual women, and not makeup.

YonicProbe · 06/11/2016 10:50

I wonder what Adam Lambert has for breakfast, as he has a penis and a make up brand:

www.celebuzz.com/2010-03-12/adam-lambert-is-launching-a-makeup-line-for-men-so-we-can-all-be-as-fabulous-as-he-is/

HermioneWeasley · 06/11/2016 10:49

"All the use al issues "

WTAF. He has no idea what women are. He thinks we're like Barbie dolls.

It's deeply offensive but shows why he thinks he's a woman because in his mind "woman " = performing femininity. Women aren't fully human, just exist for the male gaze

It makes me feel sick

Fairyflaps · 06/11/2016 10:46

Not only being petite and eating little breakfasts, but doing little wees and poos.
Yes, my right to do a little wee or poo is, apparently, major political battleground.
Presumably does teeny weeny fragrant unicorn farts too.

Snowshimmer · 06/11/2016 10:46

I don't understand men who see "woman" as just looks and makeup. I guess women's work is invisible to them.

Snowshimmer · 06/11/2016 10:43

I just don't see how Glamour can give a platform tosomeone who's clearly quite messed up, and let them loose on "feminism".

It makes sense. If all women got interested in second wave type of feminism (like the excellent Greer quote earlier on the thread) then Glamour would not have many buyers anymore. They sell femininity and beauty stuff to women.
So here is someone who is very trendy - a trans woman - and highly invested in artificial femininity. It makes sense Glamour would want to give space for this type of view. Ugh to unglamorous feminism, that won't sell so much beauty products.

His article reads like a joke though. Other than the fact that someone male who has only been trans for a year is telling women how to do feminism, and his complete denial of the fact that 99% of all women will see him as male, one wording that really irritated me was calling issues like FGM "biggies".

ageingrunner · 06/11/2016 10:38

Did anyone notice that he uses the disabled toilet to take of the makeup on his lower face, shave, then reapply? I wonder how long that takes?

MrsJamin · 06/11/2016 10:38

That quote from his book "being a boy" is very interesting, if he perceives womanhood in that way he's basically ramraiding into it saying he deserves to be there too. Just as well seeing womanhood is all about what you have for breakfast, walking in heels, being a glamorous feminist and makeup, not my morning of making a meal for a new family, doing everyone's washing, cleaning the house, getting the children to do their homework and waiting for my period to arrive at an inconvenient time. Obviously. When do we get into this world of womanhood he speaks about?

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boldlygoingsomewhere · 06/11/2016 10:29

I'm obviously also failing at womanhood - I like a hearty breakfast, hardly ever wear make-up and prefer flat shoes.

It all seems very reductive and reduces men and women to stereotypes. The blog of the gnc man linked above was interesting - good for him to try and widen the bandwidth of what it means to be a man.

ageingrunner · 06/11/2016 10:23

I know we're not meant to think that some transwomen fetishise femininity, but it's pretty hard not to draw that conclusion from the information given

shins · 06/11/2016 10:21

Yes it really resembles a day in my life as a woman. Let's see: dh working so need to do grocery shopping, amuse kids, ironing, check on elderly parent, plan working week. But was my breakfast feminine enough? And will I have time for my secret sorority to meet up and discuss our make-up or are they too busy doing all that mundane stuff too?

I just don't see how Glamour can give a platform tosomeone who's clearly quite messed up, and let them loose on "feminism".

ageingrunner · 06/11/2016 10:17

And we're meant to feel sorry for him because he supposedly has to do all that primping. Just don't do it if you don't like it. Simple. By your logic you'll still be a woman anyway.

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans · 06/11/2016 10:16

I haven't worn makeup & heels for over 20 years & I'm the more comfortable for it. Juno is clearly more womanly than I am.

Cocolepew · 06/11/2016 10:15

Taking your lower face makeup off without taking your eye make up off is now a skill? WTF?
Junos head must be full of pretty, fluffy things, because, obviously, thats what women think about all day. Make up and support underwear.

FlapsTie · 06/11/2016 10:14

That day in the life article is ridiculous, but shows how reductive the whole trans agenda is. Womanhood is simply being petite and wearing makeup and heels. Oh and control pants to hide your cock, obviously.

M0stlyHet · 06/11/2016 10:09

I just googled Jamie Dawson's "Being a Boy" on Amazon, which has a handy "look inside" section. It's an interesting read in the light of the transition to Juno - specially the paragraph about girls apparently being inducted into a secret sorority of womanhood when they go through puberty, a sorority men can't enter because they don't have periods. I am sitting on my hands attempting not to do armchair psychoanalysis at this point...

ageingrunner · 06/11/2016 10:04

I think Ian McKewan suggested that people with penises are male

BratFarrarsPony · 06/11/2016 10:03

" stupid shoes, retouching makeup, white van men trying to lure me into sex -"

cheeky cheeky FUCK - guess what I am a woman who (usually) wears flat shoes and no make up....and no white van man has ever tried to 'lure me into sex'...

It is so insulting on so many levels to ao many people.

TheHiphopopotamus · 06/11/2016 10:01

Why has the tweet been hash tagged with Ian McEwan? What's he done or said?

ageingrunner · 06/11/2016 10:01

He suggests that parents should tell their children that some people are trans. I'm not going to do that but what I do say is it's rude to stare and rude to ask whether someone is a man or a woman.

IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 06/11/2016 10:01

It looks to me like this person was not getting enough work as a male writer so decided to hop on the pink fluffy zeitgeist and go trans. And it seems to have worked. He now has plenty of attention.

M0stlyHet · 06/11/2016 09:58

Actually, that tweet is pretty scary - as a sort of insight into the mindset of someone who'd like women and their pesky biology to just disappear. It's a dreadful choice of image.

DeviTheGaelet · 06/11/2016 09:56

I actually feel a bit sorry for Juno after reading this www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/features/relationships/2016/05/juno-dawson-a-day-in-the-life-of-a-trans-woman
They seem so deeply entrenched in masculine/feminine binary. They've changed what they eat for breakfast fgs!
I really can't imagine living a life where my time is taken up with whether what I'm eating is "ladylike" or "gentlemanly". Or having to spend large parts of my day doing make up.
It just seems so restrictive. Sad.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 06/11/2016 09:55

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