Glamour Magazine allows transwoman to redefine feminism

This is prawnofthepatriarchy's post

'Some get a kick out of hearing women using loos, some simulate menstruation, and one particularly bizarre individual dumper dives for used sanpro.'

The stats that I found for AGP sufferers was anywhere between 17% to 80%, depending on which site had the least or most vested interest.

AGP has been historically used to discredit transwomen in general, which is why it's a very contentious topic.

My understanding of AGP is yes the arousal is of one's self as a woman, but it is enhanced and furthered by being in women's intimate spaces. Many men like to hear women urinate, etc. It's being in a woman's space, that augments the feeling. A poster up thread mentioned one who went down bins to get used sanpro products - that's probably a bit extreme, but it is definitely not confined to the person themselves.

Datun

That's not my understanding of the meaning of AGP. AGP is about arousal by oneself,

Many swimming pools have unisex changing rooms with cubicles, often to support mixed sex families swimming, and I think this is fine. I agree properly cubicled unisex is an option.

I know what you're saying stats and Unisex on the surface of it sounds fine but if an AGP was in The cubicle next to you, you would have no idea and nor would anyone else. And they would just be getting off on the very fact that if you're there, if you see what I mean.

Juno is a terrible, terrible writer. Never mind the inconsistent bollocks, the extract above makes me want to gouge my eyes out for the prose style alone.

Speak for women? I'm not even sure if Juno speaks English.

This extract from James Juno Dawson's "This Book is Gay" (2014) is doing the rounds on Twitter.

Datun yes and it's bullshit that the hormones he's taking are "HRT" as they're not "replacing" anything! Compared to the women I know who had no choice about their awful menopause brought on by chemotherapy

I know they don't. I'm just saying I'd rather be sharing with decent blokes who wouldn't contemplate imposing themselves on the ladies, many of whom would speak up against pervy or abusive gits rather than the only guys being the gits and us having no means to evict them.

Properly segregated is first choice

Unisex loos also don't stop the large number of transwomen with AGP being in there too.

Just saying.

OlennasWimple

Ah yes. I get lost down the rabbit hole and end up going round in circles through the entire warren.

Stats. Well of course. But it's always used as massive leverage and I just can't find the stats to support it.

prawn is always good at stats, I'll ask her when she comes back.

I did say if they face violence...

*sure

Stats

I'm not shall I do agree. I can't find any reliable statistics for transmen having faced violence in men's bathrooms. If anyone can link some please do.

And I'm not very happy with unisex bathrooms either. Women congregate together for reasons other than just having a pee. It's often a refuge, or sanctuary and women bond and talk. Quite apart from the fact men just can't aim straight.

It's also a slippery slope imo.

Why can't trans people use the accessible toilet ?

datun - I read it that he was saying that biology fucked him over because he should have been born in a woman's body rather than a man's body. (Though of course he would argue that he has a woman's body, because he is a woman ergo his body is female, penis and all )

Perhaps his argument is that some women get born with a dodgy womb, some women get born with a predisposition to breast cancer, he got born with a penis where his vagina should have been?

I dunno, it's all crap isn't it? And offensive to women who have suffered infertility, cancer and a difficult menopause.

hazey (I think)

Well, I think - as women - we can all agree on one thing: sometimes biology fucks us over. Those of us who can't get pregnant - less of a woman? Those of us who need mastectomies - less of a woman? Those of us (including me) on HRT - less womanly? I think I'm just one more woman who was royally fucked over by biology...

That really pisses me off too. He can't get pregnant because he's a MAN. NO woman thinks someone who's had a mastectomy is less of a woman for fucks sake. Likewise HRT or menopause or infertility or any of the things that Juno so clearly thinks doesn't align with his sexualised Barbie doll view of HIMSELF.

I agree BenLinus, I've said the same previously - if TW face violence from men then that is awful, and wrong and an example of male entitlement and male violence. But the solution to that is to tackle that entrenched male violence not to come and demonstrate that same male entitlement by imposing on women's safe spaces.

Campaign for your own safe space, or campaign to make the space you have a safe one. But stop trying to make our safe spaces unsafe because right now we have (or are heading for) the worst of all worlds - sex segregation on the face of it which decent and respectful men will abide by, but segregation which is easily ignored and impossible to enforce and so will be abused by violent and aggressive men.

I would genuinely rather have full blown (appropriately designed) fully unisex facilities than that - at least then there would be more people going in and out and the presence of decent, non abusive men might actually offer some degree of protection. I appreciate all the arguments about abuse survivors and so on, and I'm not disputing any of those - just saying I would prefer actual unisex to bonkers dangerous half way house.

I think with the current state of affairs it is only a matter of time before we see quite large numbers of abusive men taking advantage of this unenforceability. I know it is already happening but I mean more widespread - at the moment not that many people are aware, relatively.

I agree BenLinus

I don't think it is helpful to insinuate that transwomen don't face danger in male bathrooms (and prisons etc) They do and it needs to be addressed.

We don't need to try and disprove the claims, we just need to hold steady in our resolve that opening up female spaces is not an adequate solution.

Just took a wander through twitter. Juno really has thrown all their toys out of the (presumably pink) pram, and I remain shocked that Glamour actually employ Kat to be in charge of their social media as she is utterly unprofessional (and not just in response to this.)

Datun, the site TERF is a Slur has an amazing and revolting load of online attacks by TRAs. It doesn't work too well on a phone, better browsed on a bigger screen, though you can view it on a little one if you're patient.

As i've said before, googling trans woman attacked in men's bathroom, brings up no answers.

When I looked earlier there were actually some decent comments on the Indy article - one trans person merailing but plenty of people saying "no way to tell who is trans though, so no" which was heartening. Hopefully it hasn't taken a turn for the worse