Happy to be women today in the UK

"A colleague now pregnant with her first baby admitted she wanted a daughter more than a baby."

And my great aunt, mother of three boys and a girl, said throughout her life that she preferred boys to girls. To her young female relatives, daughters, grand daughters etc.

Anecdote is not data.

"To promote one sex over another is dangerous and there are posters on this thread who are doing just that. "

No, there aren't.

HTH.

Buffy

Thanks for responding.

Yes - there does seem to be an obsession with oppression olympics amongst young people these days. "think you have it bad as a woman - try being a man !" is pretty much it in a nutshell. I find this depressing as it's there is constant noise of competing statistics and anecdotes put out that the other side will immediately dispute.

Saying that society needs to be changed, and that behaviour needs to be egressively (see what i did there) modelled and controlled from a young age - according to some view of what society "should be like" is a hugely controversial view. Why should someone be taught to be emotionally expressive ? Why is not being emotionally expressive bad ? Violence and aggression are as natural or as unnatural as any other human behaviour ?

Politically it's unlikely that this level of societal intervention is going to go down well especially with the apparent rise of the new right in the US (I don't know what Im talking about really there so don't expend too much brain power debunking the existence of a "new right" in the US - it might just be propaganda). But it's a very leftist view of things, so I can see why it's annoying to others.

"Finally it is totally offensive to refer to female suicide attempts as "a cry for help". Women are less likely to use violent means to attempt suicide, so chances of it being unsuccessful are higher. It's awful to insinuate that a lower success rate means these women were somehow not serious in their attempt"

This.
I am sick of everything turning into a competition of who kills themself the most, with regular women who fail in their attempts left at the bottom of the pile.

Minimum wage is a really good one YonicProbe (love your nn).

scallops great post

Does anyone else think that these surveys were also very middle-class? Especially in 1947. Working class women have always worked.

Yy scallops. It's not surprising happiness has increased with those environmental factors. I also think other things like minimum wage will have improved things for both men and women but as this is comparing women now with women then, IIRC, it will come into play.

"Do away with the whole idea of masculine and feminine all together"

Works for me.

Is the contention that Feminazis are in charge of the health service and diagnostic guidelines, pear? As I'm not sure that is the case.

It's good to step back, take a breath and see that progress has been made. I agree completely. And I'm more than happy to join in a discussion about highlighting the progress we have made in 70 years or even in my lifetime.

I'm just not getting the impression that's what the OP wants to do. Call me cynical and all. And given that the thread has quickly turned into how much men suffer too I don't think that cynicism is misplaced.

However if the OP wants to genuinely talk about the progress then surely a more positive way would be to remind ourselves of the progress:

Women now have a vote.
Marital rape is now illegal.
It is no longer illegal to be a lesbian
Women can have their own bank accounts without male signatories and therefore can have financial independence.
Women can have abortions legally and safely in most of the country for a limited period of time (with two doctors' signatures).
Most professions are open to women now.
The Sex Discrimination Act was passed.
The Pay Equality Act was passed.
It is more acceptable for women to divorce their husbands.
It is more acceptable for women to have children out of wedlock or even by themselves .
Children and wives are no longer the property of men.
FGM is illegal in this country.
Paid, decent maternity leave.

I am sure there are loads of others that I've missed!

I don't think we should be grateful for this though (and this is what I thought the OP was inferring, partly). This is all basic stuff and the fact it even has to be fought for (and could be taken away from us) is disgraceful. I think we should be grateful for the many women who fought for this and continue to fight. I know some of them are among us on this thread and I know all of us fight the little injustices every day. We should absolutely celebrate that.

I wanted to ask a question if I might about the so called "crisis in masculinity" - what's the deal here ? Is all masculine behaviour considered bad ? When I think back to my childhood and things that "boys did" that girls didn't it would generally be stuff like play football (which is neither masculine or bad) and fight each other.

What I'm asking is - are there any "masculine" behaviours that are desirable as far as your concerned - or is it the case that we need to do away with the whole idea of masculine and feminine all together ? No doubt you're aware that one of the criticisms levelled at "feminazis" is that they want to stop "boys from being boys" and that traditionally "male" behaviours in young boys leads to them getting diagnosed as ADHD and given drugs to control their behaviour.

In many (legislative) ways it is much better to be a woman and a lesbian now than it was 50 years ago (or even 15 or 10). But social attitudes and the necessary/resultant crisis of masculinity still to be gone through. My mums generation didn't have much of a choice about leaving work when they got married, later on women in the services had to leave when they got pregnant, whereas now we have some measure of maternity leave if you can get a foot in the door in the first place. But men haven't lost that much, or are in crisis at it or flapping about wondering what they are for if not to be the protector and the bread winner.

And then I read the news (another family annihilation in Leicestershire, and the Chad Evans cases), and we still have a long long way to go. But women are moving forward!

Its not an equal society if we still expect the majority of men to be the main breadwinners (the YouGov survey shows how many men hate being forced into this role.
Totally misquoted the you government survey. The survey said more men feel pressure from being the main breadwinner. But seeing as there is a significant gender pay gap after children, men are more likely to be the main earner and so not surprising a higher proportion of them feel the pressure. There is nothing in that survey suggesting men are "forced into that role". That's bullshit.

Women becoming happier with being female over the past 50 years has nothing to do with males becoming unhappier. Happiness is not like a pie where if women tare more thanews their share, there is less for men.
I also don't believe men are unhappier. There hasn't been a survey like this for men. Increased suicide is awful and could indicate an increase in mental health issues in men, but it doesn't necessarily show men are becoming increasingly unhappy.
Finally it is totally offensive to refer to female suicide attempts as "a cry for help". Women are less likely to use violent means to attempt suicide, so chances of it being unsuccessful are higher. It's awful to insinuate that a lower success rate means these women were somehow not serious in their attempt.

Oh and I also would be a strong supporter of men's equal rights, somebody above mentioned paternity leave etc. I agree that men and women should equally have a right to that leave (and that the only deciding factor for who takes what portion of it is the couple themselves).

I've thought recently how lucky I am to be a woman. I've not face much if any discrimination or harassment (the odd cat call on the street) in my life and my career. I have the pleasure of being a mum which brings a lot of pressure and joy with it. My family have decided to be quite traditional due to the work my DH does (inflexible, long hours, emergencies) so I do the lionshare of running our home and minding the kids BUT (and this is a big plus) I have a well paid, 9-5 job that I do from home which affords me a fab nanny and a cleaner. I notice all the men in my life suffer from terrible stress and seem so detached, and all the women are quick, multitasking, alert and mostly happy people. I think this is hugely down to us women needing to both work so hard and fast juggling across home and sometimes jobs too and learning early on to rely on our friends and family to make things work. It leaves us with better support networks and greater capacity and sharper minds when older. Just something I mull over a lot recently seeing the difference in my mum and MIL and how engaged and aware they are with the world and their families compared to my dad and FIL.

I think inequality and discrimination for women is a massive issue.

But I also think that there are certain advantages we have from the way society is structured for women too. That doesn't mean we don't continue to fight hard for our rights though.