Happy to be women today in the UK

Well, maybe no one else has a problem because my post wasn't in any way snide but was, in fact, factual.

Unless you're suggesting I'm lying about the fun my boys and I have had with cardboard tube swords?

Or that I'm not clear about your point?

Yonic

Yes i suppose it was, but I felt it was immediately preceded by a snide post. A post apparently you see no fault with, I wonder why that is...

To clarify the anecdote before it's made out that I'm suggesting girls would never engage in sword fighting, they were beating each other over the heads with the cardboard tubes, it wasn't just a kind of fencing style thing, it was physical. They were chasing each other and whacking each other about the body with the tubes and the plastic swords, but were having a laugh. There was some "game" element to it in that it was not totally random who got the beating but i don't know what was. They all seemed to be having fun despite the game involving hitting. The old primary school had a sign saying toy fighting was banned, IME boys like toy fighting, that is all. I haven't seen girls engaged in the same sort of mass game, perhaps other posters have, like I say i accept it is anecdotal.

"Let's all accept that I was wrong and there are no games that boys like to traditionally play more than girls that, are discouraged under the banner of masculinity and we can all enjoy a beer."

Well, that was snide.

I made both my kids HUGE swords (2 handed, as long as the smallest one was tall) from a BBQ box.. we had loads of fun with them - and it was also great exercise - the little one went from barely being able to pick it up to having an awesome two-handed overhead attack (pure barbarian that one).

They also spent a fair bit of time just holding them in poses and demanding I took pictures. So even toys made for aggression were also used for non-fighting purposes.

We can all do children's anecdotes - of all the kids I know of a similar age, you would not be able to tell the sex by their hobbies and interests, they're all a total mix. Of course we can prevent kids from fighting (seriously.. no-one can stop them bickering). My kids certainly argue, but there are not the all out punchups I hear about from my dad and his brother - because I don't allow it.

Its the main reason for buying rolls of wrapping paper tbh. Given that girls and grown women do like fencing with cardboard tubes, maybe its just that gendered socialisation thing coming to the fore in a group situation?

Stray comma...

The point was distracted by my anecdote about bouncy castles and sword fights, it was on the previous page but I guess wasn't that interesting so I won't bother to type it out again. Let's all accept that I was wrong and there are no games that boys like to traditionally play more than girls that, are discouraged under the banner of masculinity and we can all enjoy a beer.

Buffy, yes it did make a mess but thankfully it wasn't toxic so at least that's something.

is there a situationin which boys running around toy fighting would be acceptable to you to the extent that you might ask them to include the girls in their game ?

Yup, I might even be tempted to join in, I love a bit of cardboard tube sword fighting, me, it's almost law in this house for it to happen. I'd also encourage girls who wanted to to play on the provided bouncy castle. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, sorry.

Bouncy castles are pretty rough and tumble, like what Xeno said.

Damn no beer

Yes grow I would absolutely expect all children (boys and girls) to be allowed to play rough and tumble games in appropriate spaces I get very cross about excluding children on basis of them being a boy/girl. Totally unacceptable and very old fashioned.
xenophile great post [beer]

Ok, accepted that it was perhaps inappropriate at the party, but is there a situationin which boys running around toy fighting would be acceptable to you to the extent that you might ask them to include the girls in their game ?

Buffy, men are not typically shamed for being anti social and wary if other men, no. Your response was dripping with sarcasm but supposing that all violence could be ended if we just sat them down and explained to them that hitting is wrong is plain daft. Do we not already do that ? So what do we need to do differently ?

Well quite Yonic, also, it was hardly making the boys sit down and learn how to do calligraphy, was it?

In the UK men kill themselves at a rate of 3 times that of women, but the rate for men is going down at the same time as the rate for women is increasing. Worldwide, the figure is much more equal, with 1.5 men to women.

Suggesting that women merely make "cries for help" is rot. Women merely tend, even in their darkest hour, to not want to make a fuss and use methods that mean that even in death they don't make a mess. The other problem is that the single biggest indicator that someone will take their own life is that they have tried previously, which might account for the fact that middle age is the modal time for suicide in both sexes in the UK, again, when looked at worldwide, 75+ is the modal age range.

So, in summary. In the UK, more men kill themselves than women, but the rate for men is falling, while the rate for women is rising and this merely means that the UK is moving toward a more Global norm for suicide rates.

Bouncy castles are expensive to hire. Damn right I'd be chivvying kids onto it if I'd been nagged into hiring one!

Grow, unless I have massively misunderstood your anecdote, it wasn't that the boys were having fun playing with cardboard tubes and that's why parents felt that it would be better to redirect their energies, but that they, quite rightly felt that it was inappropriate to play like that in that space, hence redirecting them at a different, but still boisterous activity? How is that demonstrating that boys are stopped from having a laugh? All it really demonstrates is that those parents took a sensible decision in light of the available space.

I think we're in danger of confusing two things here. Boys are 'naturally' supposed to like rough&tumble play (and girls not). We certainly teach boys that they are supposed to like it and the 'sissies' who don't get teased (but the girls don't they are just being girls!). It's quite easy to see how this develops into men being more likely to be physical and violent, and women being less physical/active/noisy/sporty. But violence and activity aren't the same thing, but activity/passivity certainly are gendered, as are violence and non-violence to a large extent.

I'm wary of men myself depending on the situation - I cannot imagine ever not being wary of men because I just didn't believe them to be capable of violence
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone didn't feel the need to be wary of men, because men could be relied upon not to be violent?
That's what we are talking about pear. Women are conditioned to be more scared, and also have an added increased risk of sexual violence but really it's not women saying they feel scared that's the problem here

Children need to learn that different activities are appropriate in different environments.

It isn't appropriate to hit each other with cardboard tubes at a birthday party.

Everyone needs ti share the space.often playgrounds are taken up by groups of boys playing large games with little space for girls or quieter boys