CBBC - just a girl

Felas

I'm aware of that. What I don't understand is why beyondreasonably would say "one word: Iran" in the context of this thread.

I find Mtf's who describe themselves as lesbians offensive. I find it crude, disrespectful, and have no time for such people.

ripples - have you ever read the blogs by Miranda Yardley and her partner Helen? I believe they describe their relationship as a gay male relationship (they are both MTF). They occasionally come on here, and I've found both their blogs and their comments here very interesting.

ripples there is a suggestion that gay males in Iran transition to avoid the death penalty that comes with being gay.
What do you think about MTF who describe themselves as lesbians?

"One word: Iran"

I don't understand your point.

aforest

I agree with you, if that is indeed the case. But is a leap being taken here in assuming that this child's parents are homophobic?

im gay and also mtf trans (although I hate what that word now means and while it no longer has much resonance for me, for the sake of clarity it's still the best single descriptive word to use)

I don't regard myself as straight because I am trans and attracted to men. I regard myself as gay because I am a man, even though I dress and present as a woman.

One word: Iran

"Are you suggesting that his parents can't stand the idea of their son being gay that would rather he transitioned to female, just so they can say that their child is heterosexual?"

Homophobic parents preferring their DC to be trans (ie have a medical condition that needs treatment) rather than gay is a real and serious concern.

Flora, could it be that he is trans and also attracted to boys?

I am struggling to see the homophobia. Are you suggesting that his parents can't stand the idea of their son being gay that would rather he transitioned to female, just so they can say that their child is heterosexual?

I am ftm transgender and to be honest I hate the use of medical intervention in children, and am massively glad that I never was put through that, some children will grow up to be trans and can then make an educated decision as an adult, but I just don't think it is something that you can make an informed decision about as a child.

If it was a programme that talked about trans issues in a non medical way and without the football = boy, dolls = girl crap then it could be a useful resource for children going through the hell of being trans. I was brought up to be massively ashamed of how I felt, I hid it and have nearly destroyed myself quietly by pretending I'm not so something like this could have been helpful but from the descriptions above I actually think that it doesn't understand the deep horrors of being trans and has totally missed the mark - although in fairness I haven't actually watched it...

Why don't the "progressive" types pick up on the homophobia underlying these cases? These young children seem to be overwhelming attracted to their own sex and to have been raised in families with fixed views on gender roles. In the programme the child's father wanted to take a boy to football and the boy wanted to play with dolls. It seems the mum said he was born in the wrong body. And of course the poor kid has a crush on a boy who doesn't know he's also a boy. What the fuck is progressive about that?

Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful post tuba.

Warning: long post as I have too much to say.

I am of the opinion that hormone blockers do repress cognitive maturity. Therefore any person taking them before the onset of puberty could continue in their beliefs about themselves until some time after the blockers cease. That is why the gender clinics preferred to start them after a specific Tanner stage. That has now changed so some children are prescribed blockers before the onset of puberty. Some parents press for that and are taking a risk because their child will not be cognitively mature enough to "know" they will continue to feel the same way in adult life. (Gillick competent). The children who are given blockers pre-puberty are those who have been seen by gender specialists from a much younger age. Still there is scope for these children to have desisted before adulthood had they not been given blockers. It is a gamble. Not one I would take as a parent. My child was at the end of puberty before starting blockers. Had they been younger I would not have agreed to it. Knowing what I know now, five years later, I would have delayed blockers further if I could go back. I know plenty will disagree with me and shout about it being wrong to force a child to go through the "wrong" puberty. Having a boy child presenting as transgender must be more difficult I know; their pubertal changes cannot be changed easily, some not at all. So I suppose it is easier for me to hold these views as my child is a female transitioned to live as male.

On the subject of whether anyone can become the opposite sex or gender; my opinion is no they cannot. They can take hormones and have any number of surgeries but it will not make them the opposite of how they were born. Their discomfort in their sex/gender can be alleviated by presenting themselves to the world as the gender they are comfortable with. Their discomfort and dysphoria regarding their body can be somewhat alleviated by surgeries. Just like plastic surgery it makes a person feel better about themselves, give you more confidence and thereby allow them to live a happier more fulfilled life. But that life is never going to be exactly how it would be if they had been born in their preferred sex. How can it be if they are dependent on hormone therapy for the rest of their life?

With regard to toys children play with, someone asked if there were any cases of transgender children who did not prefer toys which were specific to children of the opposite sex. My child always played with non gender specific toys but also with dolls occasionally in the early years; preferring toy animals, toy vehicles, soft toys, construction toys and lots of outdoor play. Lots of drawing, art and craft and games. So not any gender typical activities really. So when he told me he needed to live as male it was a surprise but not unbelievable. He had started his own "soft" transition around the age of 9 or 10 when he started to refuse to wear anything with pink in it. He said he didn't like pink. OK I could accept that. He then wouldn't wear dresses or skirts. That was acceptable, I don't like wearing them either, even though I do wear pink. Then he wanted short hair. OK lots of girls have short hair so no alarm bells ringing there. Those sort of changes carried on for a few years without any alarm bells ringing for me. Of course this was over five years ago before all the recent media interest in transgender children. I probably would have suspected something if it was happening in my family now. But back then I had never even heard of transgender children.

So these are my opinions. I am happy to listen to those of others too and anyone is free to criticise mine. I am not being transphobic in anything I say. To be phobic is to be frightened; I may worry about what life holds for my son but transgender issues/people do not scare me. I cannot ever understand how they feel but I can be respectful to them and how they wish to live. I hope I have not offended anyone by stating my views and opinions. I don't intend to.

It's sad and worrying that programmes like these are pushing this dogma that if you like pink and dolls you must be a girl aka girls have to do these things
And if you like football and lego you must be a boy because only boys can do these things.

Women's lived and real experiences are being overwritten and wiped out by this nonsence and it is programs like this that will indoctrinate children watching it, and this is indeed something to fight against.

Is anyone complaining to the BBC?

"NO ONE knows what being a woman means"

Well, maybe no one in your echo chamber of trans ideology where Newspeak is the only accepted language.

The rest of the world knows that Woman means Adult fuman female and Female means Of the sex that can bear young or make eggs.

Check any dictionary if you don't believe me.

"no, i worked in mental health full time for five years before i had my baby and i was studying to become a psychologist"

HCA then? As you were not qualified?
Which is fine, strip beds and serve food to your hearts content, but it doesn't qualify you as any sort of "I do actually work in health care" expert.

Yep. That sums it all up quite nicely, basil. :)

"Long and short of it is NO ONE knows what being a woman means as it is different for everyone who identifies as one.

My reasons for saying im a woman are obviously different to yours for example."

I beg to differ. I do know what a woman is. It is an adult, human female. It always has been and a fashionable ideology doesn't change that.

My reason for saying that I'm a woman, is because I have XX chromosomes, female genitalia and secondary sexual characteristics and I was identified as a girl at birth and brought up differently than if I had been identified as a boy. I was given different aspirations and assumptions and treated differently (less advantageously). People have treated my words and behaviour differently than if I had been a man.

It really isn't difficult.

I know what a woman is and if you don't, that's because you are bending over backwards to comply with this stupid ideology that says being a woman is not a biological reality, just a feeeeeeling. It's offensive bollocks.

It's on the front page of the Mail.

This isn't particularly helpful. It looks as though they have been contacted by right wing Christian groups (MP Peter Bone is mentioned) and have then trawled old MN threads.

The Mail slant is more that the BBC shouldn't be talking about sex on a CBBC website.

The issue of giving unnecessary medical treatment with little idea of the long term effects or any justification for the concept of innate gender is skated over.

Peter Bone is also anti Gay marriage. As can be seen on this thread, people often confuse gay rights and gender identity issues. There is nothing particularly pro gay about the gender identity movement - there is nothing more challenging to it than an 'unfeminine' woman who has sex with other women while still insisting that she is a woman, and that she doesn't want to have sex with somebody with a penis just because they identify as female.

While the drugs are in theory reversible in reality nearly all children who take them then fully transition. So saying they "buy time to decide" is incorrect. They are the first step on the road to medical transition.
I don't know what the parents if transgender children are advised but I hope it's not the buying time narrative.

"the thing is that the drugs are reverseable whereas puberty is not. Thats the point of it.... the point is to delay the onset of puberty"

Actually, the point is that puberty is natural and essential, not just for sexual but also cognitive maturity, whereas puberty blockers are dangerous and very risky drugs.

The only "negative" consequence of puberty in this context is that the person might not look exactly as they wish later on in life (who does?) if they continue to want to look like the opposite sex.

The negative consequences of puberty blockers are numerous and very significant, including infertility and low bone density.

Hedgehog - re "Dont get why this is a problem. Just the same as gay story lines will not make your child gay..."

It's not that stories about gays will make our DC gay, but that they are entirely inappropriate topic for small children who have no idea of sex or sexual attraction.

I'm surprised that you call yourself a parent and former MH professional.

That article was basing gender confusion on what toys the children were playing with! No mention of gender dysphoria at all. It's encouraging little children to question their sex based on their toy preference for goodness sake! So what's that? 90% of children??

Children and teenagers are wildly impressionable. Have you read the pro-ana sites for heaven's sake. No-one can change sex. No-one. That programme makes it out to be a lifestyle choice FFS.

If you're gay, you grow up as gay - job done. You don't take drugs and have surgery to get there. There is NO analogy between the two.

What next? Parties for 11 year olds to 'choose' their adult sex??

"the point is to delay the onset of puberty to give them time to grow older and decide then."

It's not a neutral thing. Delaying puberty is a big deal, and a huge risk given we don't know enough about the impact on children's health.

Puberty isn't just about sexual changes. There is also a period of brain development, and changes to bone density, vocal chords and facial features.

What's the effect of not going through the brain development that is means to happen at that time? No one really knows, because although these drugs have been around for a while, the widespread use of them for trans teenagers is new and we won't have enough evidence to understand the effects for a while.

I saw this thread quoted in the MSM this morning so cane looking for it - I'm please to see that even Maria Miller seemed to have reached peak-trans as she's spoken out against the BBCs actions.