CBBC - just a girl

Has there been any sensible discussion on the Today programme?

I'm quite worried that this will be framed as right wing Christians against people who just want to be themselves.

Milander did they cover it? I didn't hear it.

Agree with Cote regarding Ripples.

I think these threads have been much more interesting lately having the views of people with direct experience of trans issues. Would be a shame to lose that. That isn't to say they aren't interesting anyway.

Also I didn't know Miranda Yardley posted here, is Miranda's partner a "A Guy Called Helen"?

The Today programme say they are covering this shortly

ripples - I don't think you are derailing. Your view point is unique on MN and invaluable. Please stick around.

Felascloak

Interestingly I think the comments on that report were identifying two groups: GNC and GNC with gender dysphoria. The opinion being the former aren't trans and will 'grow out of it' and the latter definitely are and never will.

"Steensma study is that he identified two groups and the the main characteristic of the "desisters" were being gender non-conforming (wanting to have the role of the other sex - being able to behave like a boy/girl) and the persisters felt they were in the "wrong body".

Interestingly surgery/drugs is being proposed to the second group as the only possible option to avoid misery.

It makes sense to me re my wondering about what appears to be 'genuine' trans and not genuine.

lilithxx16

That troubles me as well Lili, I started posts about it a couple of times but gave up.

It troubles me that we can talk to kids about gender (a safe subject) but not about sexuality. Homophobia starts in schools, where gay is commonly used as an insult.

Many kids have two mums or two dads. I don't see a reason why CBBC shouldn't run a programme on this.

No not at all. I'm trying to explain why flora posted as she did. We get a lot of trolling. If I thought you were doing that I wouldn't have been arsed to write a reply.
You don't need to defend yourself to us

Do you think I'm derailing the thread Felas?

I'm going to leave now. I can now only see this heading in one direction. That being me trying to defend myself for simply posting here. And that will end up derailing the thread.

Thanks to you and everyone else for the productive discussion though

ripples we get a lot of mainly men posting here with the express intent of derailing threads and goading feminists so as a result most of us are pretty cynical about new posters and quite quick to jump on any tactics we perceive as potentially derailing.
Have a look on some of the other threads here and you'll see.

Go back to the previous page Flora.

You, and everyone else here will see that I never demanded anything from you. I asked you politely for links. You declined to provide links. I accepted that.

Now you seem intent on trying to get a rise out of me by being unnecessarily confrontational. Why I have no idea.

Fedora type? FWR? Demanding attention from feminists? I genuinely don't understand you Flora. I'm posting on a forum about an issue that I have a vested interest in. For what it's worth, I actually side more with the feminists than I do the trans-activists on this subject. My intent here is not to demand attention. My intent here is to put my own opinion across in regards to how I feel about the issue being discussed.

I am sorry if my presence here is not to your liking.

Can you imagine the uproar if CBBC made a programme about being a lesbian? There's enough uproar when the government try to make any legislation about sex education
Actually it's not funny it's very sad that trans is a socially acceptable subject for kids TV but homosexuality isn't, given way way more children will be gay.

ripples I've never encountered you before. My original post that led you to demand sources was not aimed at you. Your posts are typical of the fedora types who post on FWR demanding time and attention from feminists.

Feel free to do as you previously said and treat your last post to me as your final one.

Why not teach kids about gay and lesbian history and lifestyles?

Quite. Where are the CBBC programmes about girls growing up to be butch lesbians?

perhaps due to your male socialisation

Flora,

You specifically addressed me in your post. You did state it to me. I responded to you in return.

I am not centering this issue on myself at all. You couldn't be more wrong.

perhaps due to your male socialisation

You're embarrassing yourself now.

To these children I would say - you were not born in the wrong body, you are beautiful as you are. It is not you that needs to change but the society you live in.

This. Wonderfully put.

Danger is that Trans is dominating the discourse. Why not teach kids about gay and lesbian history and lifestyles? Has there been a CBBC programme about this? Many gender non-conforming kids turn out to be gay or lesbian after all. Homophobia is commonplace in schools. Is this being addressed?

Yes lilith That's what I was waffling on about earlier.
If it's more likely a child who feels "different" is actually going to be a gay adult, why not focus on that? Why not tell those stories first?
I can't help thinking it is driven by unconscious bias against homosexuality although I'm sure most of the people making these programmes don't even think of that.

ripples you are very much centring this issue on yourself, perhaps due to your male socialisation. I don't care much whether you "concede" to my point. I wasn't directing it at you.

As I say, do bear this thought about homophobia in mind as you see further instances of children being claimed as trans.

Danger is that Trans is dominating the discourse. Why not teach kids about gay and lesbian history and lifestyles? Has there been a CBBC programme about this? Many gender non-conforming kids turn out to be gay or lesbian after all. Homophobia is commonplace in schools. Is this being addressed?

Also, I fully support campaigns like @PinkStinksUK and @LetToysBeToys which seek to reduce the gender polarity which is imposed on our children from a young age. By these imposed standards many children are gender non-conforming. To these children I would say - you were not born in the wrong body, you are beautiful as you are. It is not you that needs to change but the society you live in.

The comments are interesting, most of the criticism in there is that the studies are GNC children not trans children. But I don't understand why those are different?

Not problematic, just me being lazy in my phrasing. You are right, some turn out straight non-trans.
I had to Google and this appears the best non-politicised summary
www.sexologytoday.org/2016/01/do-trans-kids-stay-trans-when-they-grow_99.html?m=1

Felas

Those stats sound problematic to me. 80% plus 20% equals 100%. So 100% of children who have gender dysphoria are either trans or gay?

So 0% of those children grow up to be straight adults?