DFS advert

prostitution doesn't even need to be considered when it comes to whether more men or women work in dangerous environments, dealing with hazardous materials, undertaking necessary but poorly-valued labour. Women do far more, and far more of it unpaid, than men.

I don't know any feminists who believe that it's totally ok for men to work in dangerous conditions, in fear for their lives, or to have their work devalued. It's not about dragging men down to the level of the most oppressed woman. But this myth that women are privileged not to have to undertake dangerous work is just that - women do and have done some of the most dangerous labour required of humans since time immemorial

More pertinently, more civilian women and children suffer in war than combatant men, due to their increased risk of being raped/trafficked both by the "enemy" and by friendly forces.

'I know there is a narrative that women are treated worse in this country...'

If you don't think women are treated worse in this country, I'm not sure why you keep coming on threads about sexism against Western women.

Do wars have front lines nowadays? As far as I can see they're hell for everyone.

How did I know you would bring up war, Fifa eh? It's almost like you're not the first to suggest that round here. How many men suffer on the front line compared to women suffering in prostitution do you think? Who is it who creates the dangerous environments in which these two groups of people have to move?

fifa it isn't a race to the bottom. You shouldn't say 'well you're treated much better than the worst conditions that women (or men) can endure so quit your whining' because that is just accepting less than what is actually possible and is actually fair.

The issue Buffy is that if we talk about work and dangerous jobs, we often talk about the formal economy. Whereas most work done by women is in the informal economy or outside of the economy altogether.

So women are more prone to respiratory conditions because they do so much in the home - exposure to gas cookers for example, and indoor air pollution. But because many men don't count what women do as work, these health problems tend to be seen very differently.

Reporting sexism is an option on all threads. When you see it, I suggest you report it. If it's real, it will be deleted

I assume you mean things like this Lass...

The case where council cleaners won the case to make their wages equivalent to bin men, with back pay, because their role as cleaners includes cleaning homes where a body has been discovered, cleaning hazardous refuse from homes of substance misusers etc.

The gendered problem of respiratory conditions and UTIs among call centre workers.

The issue of older women dying due to working in asbestos factories.

These are all things trade unions should be dealing with, addressing the employer, unlike prostitution which should be dealt with in similar ways to trafficking, and addresses criminals and the behaviour of clients (men).

Hapshawl

I take your point, but if you want to contextualise this discussion as work worldwide, then you have to acknowledge as many men in insufferable conditions as women worldwide, you have to accept women are privaliged for not being in the front line within war.

You cannot discuss a UK work trend discussion and use women worldwide you cannot identify with as back up for your argument.

I havn't derailed any thread, I wanted to discuss the giving of a bus seat, and did, I have discussed gaming, and well this one kind of got away from me...

Reporting sexism on a thread like this isn't an option, despite 50% of divisive comments starting with 'As a man you shouldn't...', and besides i'm not here to complain about women.

The disputes I have gotten into are partly down to me thoroughly disliking censorship, or bullying, which is pretty prevelant. I know there is a narrative that women are treated worse in this country, but trust me when I say coming from a place where your skin colour means you are beaten, spat on or locked up for daring to look at someone else, it's difficult to sit back and listen to anyone take a hit for their opinion!!

It was not in the least a cheap shot, nor was I trying to "win" a point. It makes me furious that people make out that men doing dangerous work gives women a position of privilege, when many of the most dangerous, life-threatening, back-breaking or self-sacrificing activities are undertaken by women worldwide. It's just assumed that women will do these things. It's not about validating prostitution as a job or anything - it's about acknowledging the dangerous labour that women undertake daily, and prostitution happens to fall within the scope of that labour, which is ignored when discussions about how only men are prepared to take on dangerous work take place

I'm not 'sure that the context of the thread was particularly limited to legitimate work.... it started at gendered roles in advertising.

I don't think it's a 'cheap shot' really. Some people like to argue that feminists don't want equality, because they expect men to do dirty, physical, dangerous things while women are cosseted. But loads of women do dirty, physical, dangerous things in order to make money. Which makes the assertion that only men face danger, incorrect

The comparison in the context of this thread should have been to legitimate dirty, physical or dangerous jobs which women do.

Were the comments on this thread fifa ?

FIFA, I think part of the reason you're getting the reaction that you are is that you have appeared as a new poster, and made a very large number of posts in a very short space of time, and started a thread.

You also seem to come on threads and change the topic to something you want to discuss rather than the actual topic of the thread.

Generally, posters will only make a few posts and try to follow the flow of the conversation.

You seem pretty offended by how you've been treated, but it would be more sensible to take that up with the actual posters you feel offended by, or report to MNHQ if they've broken talk guidelines.

Because personal disputes you seem to get into are monopolising threads.

Fifa - report anything you think breaks talk guidelines. If you think someone is being sexist towards you, by all means report them.

You're a mensch

I have reported 2 very nasty racist comments, I'll try my hardest not to report anything unless it's dangerously offensive.

It was a man who made the jesus/batman comment

(I think )

It's a shame you assume that feminists talk about the plight of abused women simply to prove a point, rather than talking about abused women because highlighting that these abuses are occurring

I think he had a fair point. I thought it was a cheap shot too.

This thread is about jobs- comparing legitimate work done by men and women and discrepancies therein; it is not about prostitution- which is not legitimate work.