A Woman's Hair is her Crown

If your wife is happy to take care of your dd's longer, braided hair, then let her.

Why is his wife 'wasting' money when she gets her hair done? She pays for a service, which she receives = money not wasted. Presumably she likes the way her hair looks as she does it repeatedly = money not wasted.

I think he means that his wife spends money and he doesn't like that, so he tries to control her and stop her by saying it's a waste of money and that she's conforming to the male gaze.

He needs to read/listen to

I think the OP has stopped responding because he didn't get the answers he wanted.

There is a lot of middle ground between long braids and a grade 0.5 isn't there?

Not when you have a point to prove, there isn't!

But it's pretty shitty to use a 6 year old girl to do it.

Your proposed haircut is pretty severe. 0.5 is almost no hair at all. My ds has a grade 2.

Anyway I don't really get why your dd has to be virtually bald to have a low maintenance hairstyle. There is a lot of middle ground between long braids and a grade 0.5 isn't there?

Yes, the motives. Op seems to be acting like a bull in a China shop with his wife and daughters sensitive feelings just to make his point.

I completely agree Titania.

I was surprised and disappointed at some of the responses on here. It's as if any one saying "oh women should not have to pander to standards of beauty" is accepted as a good thing despite, what seemed to me anyway, saying that for very questionable motives.

I read the original post in horror. You seem to be completely selfish, unable to empathise and obnoxious to your wife OP.

What seems like a big hassle and unnecessary expense to you might be a joy to your wife and potentially your daughter too if you backed off. Getting hair done, choosing styles and pampering can be immensely soothing and therapeutic and a great bonding experience for mum and daughter.

Feminism is not about turning girls into boys, its about liberation and equality. Maybe you expected us all to jump in and agree while we burn our bras and try to look as unnatractive as possible. Its not about that I'm afraid. Or perhaps you just wanted to shock a few of us so you could point out how contradictory we are being.

Black hair shops are actually cheaper than european hairdressers and spending a few hours a month conditioning and plaiting isn't the huge inconvenience you are making it out to be. My mum used to spend at least 20 minutes plaiting my sister and my hair every single morning, and yes we complained but we also enjoyed the results. At 6 she is far too young to understand the potential consequences of this.

And if your wife says no you should listen to her. If I came home to a bald daughter I would have packed my husband's things at once. Also, maybe appreciate the fact your wife makes an effort ti look good for herself. That's a nice thing.

As the stereotypical straight cis white male, I am as far away from this conceptual dillema as it's as possible to be. However I do remember reading somewhere about this thing called intersectionality, where all the racism, sexism, and homophobia intertwines in an incredibly complex way.

As a man I question our capacity to get the woman thing sometimes, so I'd advocate letting your wife take the lead on this one. By all means talk about it with her, I wouldn't sit on it and be frustrated. However have the discussion with her, but make it clear that even if you end up disagreeing you'll back her play in practicality. I suspect it would mean a lot.

"makes the Woman's hair a Crown of Thorns not Gold "

Oh I missed this.

Yikes.

I do not have this kind of hair, but I do know that women's "trims" cost a lot more than men's, for the most part (£15 vs £45 for DH and me in our village), and that plenty of barbers won't do cuts on women even if they would do the equivalent cut on a man. So you may find that however your daughter has her hair, it costs more to maintain than your son's; important, as cost is one of your reasons for disparaging your wife as you have in the OP.

I remember reading somewhere about a tax on being female. Women pay 25% more for things like hairdressing, clothes etc.

That is where you should be putting your energies. Not making your daughter suffer for being female!

It's hypocritical to be concerned about the inequality women (and black people) face, and then be angry and domineering in pushing an unconventional haircut on your DD, against your partner's wishes.

What does your DD want? Does she want a short cut like her brother because she sees how easy his is to take care of? Do you have any friends or family locally of similar ethnicity / hair type that you could ask for recommendations. There's no particular reason why it has to be braided is there? I know a teenage girl with typical Afro-Caribbean hair, quite long & not straightened, & she usually has it loose or in a ponytail, frankly it looks fabulous.

My DD is 4.6. Now admittedly we are white British, so her hair is somewhat easier (I imagine) to care for than your DD's. It is curly though, & because she is obsessed with Rapunzel I've allowed her to grow it, it's currently down to her tailbone. Surprisingly, very long hair is easier to care for than shorter hair - it requires less washing as it gets less messy as it's always up, she can easily go 2 weeks & it neither looks nor feels dirty. Once hair reaches a certain length, it's pretty easy to put into a few braids. There are so many Youtube videos so it needn't be costly to keep it neatly up & re-do every couple of days. It gets easier the longer it is & many more styles become available.

As I said earlier (and others have said) the real issue is your daughter's choice. If you take that away you risk damaging her self esteem & your relationship with her for a long time to come. If her mother is forcing her to conform to certain types of hairstyles, the same applies.

You don't want your daughter to have to conform to notions of beauty - but it sounds as if you'd disapprove heartily - and vocally - if she decided she wanted weaves/conditioner/braiding/colour etc.

So it is fine for her not to conform to society's ideas of beauty AS LONG AS SHE CONFORMS TO YOUR IDEAS?? Because that's how it sounds.

I know your children are twins, but that doesn't mean they aren't individuals. Your daughter is allowed to have different ideas about how she wants to look.

You want your dd to choose her hairstyle to please you. That is as bad as her choosing her hairstyle to suit society's ideas of beauty.

She should only choose her hairstyle to please herself.

Empower her to make her own choices - and make absolutely sure you tell her that she doesn't have to please you with those choices - because I have a horrible feeling that, at the moment, she knows what you like and don't like, and wouldn't want to make a choice that you'd disapprove of.

I do think that, when a child is young, the parent who is doing most of the hair care (ie. doing their hair each day, dealing with hair washing etc) does get a big say in what the style should be - in that the child shouldn't be allowed to choose a style that is going to take ages to do every day. And the style should be sensible and practical for what they are going to be doing - ie. long hair should be tied back for PE etc, and a hairstyle shouldn't get in the way of children playing, being active etc (I hope that makes sense). I suspect that your wife does most of this sort of stuff for your children at the moment, and that does give her opinion weight - more weight than yours, I believe. But your dd's opinion should also have weight.

But as a child gets older, and can take on the responsibility for doing their own hair, they should get more say over style. Yes, there are constraints around cost, suitability for school, practicality etc - but within those, it should be the child's decision.

You say your daughter tells you she wants her hair short - can I ask you what she tells her mum about the style she wants, when you aren't around? Is she possibly telling you what you want to hear?

I do think you also need to adjust your idea about a woman's hair being a crown of thorns rather than her crowning glory, as that is a very negative image, and you don't want your daughter to grow up hating any part of her body, do you - and she will pick up that that's how you feel, and it will negatively affect her self image.

It is worth bearing in mind that being really strict about something can have the exact opposite effect to the one you want. So by making your dd have short hair, so she doesn't get the notion that her beauty depends on her hair, you might push her to rebel against that notion - and in years to come, her hair may become the main focus for her.

To give you an example:

My mum hates pink. Loathes it.

As a girl, growing up, my sister and I had no pink clothing whatsoever. My mum made a lot of our clothes herself, so wasn't constrained by what was in the shops.

As we got older, we were allowed more choice about the fabrics she bought to make our clothes - but I knew that I couldn't have chosen a pink fabric - I knew her views all too well, and knew I would get that Look from her. It was subtle, the way we were steered away from anything she disapproved of - but we knew what was and was not allowed.

She was just as opposed to the idea of 'Girls Wear Pink' as you are opposed to 'A Woman's Hair is her Crowning Glory' - and my sister and I were very firmly pushed away from all things pink.

As an adult, I realised that I liked pink, and that I resented her for suppressing my individuality the way that she had. I wear quite a lot of pink now - all different shades - and I revel in all the colour choices available to me. And I still feel that this earns me her disapproval. My sister has completely absorbed mum's anti-pink stance - and I think that's another of the reasons why mum loves her best, and always has.

If you feel your dd is being forced into styles she hates, because her mum likes them, then of course you should do something about that. But don't do it just to enforce on her your own ideas about beauty and societal norms, please.

I am living proof that doing that has a negative effect on parent-child relationships.

Asking a child to buck the gender trend is asking a lot. It isn't just about hair. It's about a whole bigger picture which men need to challenge (and not just ask women and girls to do this).

Well, yeah, but with children below the age of five, you have to either make them conform to gender, or go against it. And I am in favour of enforcing as little gender on them as you can get away with. I do think that in most communities a girl can get away with a "feminine" short haircut.

At age six, you can explain to a girl that people might bully her for her haircut.
If she wants a buzzcut in spite of that, then let her have it. That is an expression of individuality much more than any long hair conformity could be.

I am pretty sure my parents kept my hair short because it was less of a fuss when I was a toddler, and the only "harm" that has done me is that I now think little children don't need to express anything by their hair, especially since their haircut will be decided by the parents anyway.

Buddfox - have you considered that, by focusing so much on your dd's hairstyle, and your disagreement with your wife about it, you may actually be making it more of an issue than it needs to be, and this will create exactly what you want to avoid, in the future? If you have an intense focus on the style you think she ought to have, and fighting about it with your wife, YOU are giving the whole matter a disproportionate importance, which works against what you actually say you want.

As other people have said, hair is one way we express our individuality, and there is nothing wrong with spending time, effort or money on fancy hairstyles (provided that you can afford the time, money, effort).

You don't want to make your daughter feel she has failed you or let you down, if she wants to get a weave, or a fancy hair do, or just grow her hair long, do you? But the clear impression you are giving here is that there is only one style YOU would consider acceptable for her - a buzz cut.

Can you see that that is just as prescriptive as you think your wife is being?

As your dd grows up, she will have her own ideas about how she wants to style her hair - she may well try out lots of styles, and you won't like or approve of all of them - but it is her hair and her choice, and she will be working through the process of finding her own style - and she will be better able to express her choices.

I would advise you to back off on this issue. As long as your daughter is happy with her hair style, and it is easy enough to care for, then that is what matters. Let your daughter know that you support her choice, whatever that choice may be - I get the definite impression that you are only supporting her choice at the moment, because she is agreeing with you, and if she were saying she loves her hair the way her mum does it, and wants to keep it that way, you'd be saying she is too young to make that sort of decision.

For what it's worth, I think everything I have said about your daughter applies equally to your son. Gone are the days of there being one style for boys and men - the 'short back and sides' haircut - there are all sorts of styles out there for everyone, and men and boys can express their individuality through their hairstyles just as much as women and girls can.

I hope you would love your children just as much, whatever their appearance - but I worry that having the very rigid belief you have expressed here could lead to your children feeling that your love is conditional on them having a hair do that YOU approve of. I am sure you don't want this.

AyeAmorak I'm happy to join you being

a person that is unable to distinguish from a tongue in cheek comment from proper dialogue

and
having a Chip on your shoulder in place of a sense of humour

Not really getting much sense that the OP's main concern is that his daughter should not base her self-esteem on the quality of her hair but more that he wants to control his wife and daughter.

Oh and OP if you think those haircuts in the link from Poldark were achieved by spending a few pounds at the local barber you are delusional.

Women spend an extraordinary amount of money on hair, skin, nails, clothes, shoes, etc. because standards of female attractiveness (set by men) demand it. In my experience, men who have pooh-poohed this and who have made noises about women spending less, or being more 'natural', have at the same time, adhered to these standards, rather than challenging them. Asking a child to buck the gender trend is asking a lot. It isn't just about hair. It's about a whole bigger picture which men need to challenge (and not just ask women and girls to do this).

An outsider comments: many of those TWAs look fabulous, very feminine as well as practical.

At 6 I think your daughter should have some say in this.

If she expresses the desire for short hair (as in, says repeatedly over a significant period of time, not just a one-off whim), then by all means let her have short hair.

However, please don't just buzz cut her hair because it's less troublesome. It could send out some very unwelcome messages to her--that her hair is "difficult," that it's better if it isn't there or whatever. Lots of black women have complex feelings about their hair.

Personally, I think natural hair grown medium length and worn in a little "puff" looks nice on young black girls, and is safe and gentle on the scalp. While the braided styles can be really attractive, I do worry about them causing traction alopecia.