General Trans Discussion Thread

Got into a chat with an older feminist woman yesterday ... and it turned out she was very definitely Spartacus and so was her young daughter.

I think that Spartacus are the silent majority.

It's telling that the Guardian is not allowing comments on the article. They know that most readers are Spartacus.

The mystery is why they continue to push the militant TA agenda, ignoring more moderate trans people as well as women. Then they ask for our money to support their 'high quality journalism'. They will never get a penny from me while they continue to censor women's voices.

Wow. Mermaids did well to turn the tables on that one and deflect attention from the criticism they were subject to over the high court ruling. No discussion over the whys and wherefores of the ruling ... they simply drummed up four parents scared their children will be taken away from them. I loved the comment by the lawyer at the end though - it showed what a storm in a teacup it was. Shame on the Graun for publishing the (non)story.

That article has me in a rage. Goes straight in completely misrepresenting the recent court case and quotes Susie Green without having done any research on her.

Mermaids are in the guardian this morning

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/22/parents-fear-transgender-children-will-be-taken-away-after-court-ruling

Worried parents of transport children who claim their exes are using the recent case as a basis for threatening court action. Includes a mother whose son started dressing as a girl at 2 and demanding to be called a girl at 4.

IndominusRex I watch it and have been interested by that storyline too. I've not seen yesterday's episode though so don't know if it's been gone into more!

Does anyone in here with Humans? There's an interesting storyline about some children who seemingly 'identify' as synths (robots) - it's not got too deeply into it yet but seemingly these characters are doing so as a result of some kind of train and there are interesting parallels with trans kids.

I'm a student, and just took a survey for the NUS. The survey was about trees and green spaces, so nothing at all to do with any of these issues. Towards the end, I got a question asking me to describe 'my gender identity' with a write-in box, so I could have any gender identity I liked. That's new. And even more bizarre than asking people to tick whether they identify as a man or woman rather than which sex they are.

I wrote: 'I don't have a gender identity. My sex is female.' Somehow I doubt they'll understand my point, though.

Am just popping in here to complain that the Royal Institution - the Royal Fucking Institution, home to Faraday et al, creator of the wonderful Christmas Lectures, and a champion of science - asks not "what sex are you" but "what gender do you identify as" or somesuch.

What anti-science bollocks, and utterly unworthy of such a fantastic place.

This is an interesting read: theconversation.com/medieval-women-can-teach-us-how-to-smash-gender-rules-and-the-glass-ceiling-68024

It gives a flavour of how long women have been fighting the stereotypes and constraints of gendered roles, "expanding the bandwidth of what it means to be a woman" and why being told by vocal trans that being a woman is all about dresses, tits and teeth (appearance) might be a problem. If we really get down to it, "living as a woman" is all about fighting for equality, agency and overcoming barriers that society puts in the way of you achieving your full potential. How you choose to dress is a complete irrelevance.

are they renaming it 'Loosely women' then?

Intrigued

The newest Loose Women panelist is a trans-woman. This should be interesting.

*SAME sex families, not sex families

I'd love to watch that debate Datun. It would be great to see a balanced discussion with fair representation from each interested party. Can't see it happening though.

Also this was something that wasn't widely known. The main judge also contributed to a book about sex families.

The judges who have dealt with J’s case are among the top authorities in the country on family and children’s law as it relates to transgender people. When Mermaids and its supporters call Mr Justice Hayden ‘transphobic’ and ‘uninformed’, they show up their own ignorance and prejudice.

That was very interesting miranda.

Especially "Part 2 in this series will take a deeper look at Mermaids and the overall state of affairs regarding “transgender children” in the United Kingdom."

I would love to see a debate involving The Tavistock, social services, Mermaids, mental health professionals, genuine transwoman (like you), a TRA and feminists.

One from each group. Just to sort the bloody wheat from the chaff and get some answers re stats, science and ethics and agendas.

There's a great analysis of the re: J case on the 4th Wave Now website:

The boy who ‘lived in stealth’: Judge challenges ’emerging orthodoxy’

Glad you and your child found a way through this too.

Thank you Tubas - it is helpful to have that additional context, although it reinforces the sadness I expressed earlier.

Jed There will only be a stage where identity and gender concepts are explored if the parents seek that type of conselling prior to any social transition. CAMHs are they only option for this in the NHS and our experience with CAMHS was that they knew little about Gender dysphoria. But that was over five years ago. Thankfully my son was referred by CAMHs to a NHS consultant Paediatric Psychiatrist who had training in Gender Dysphoria in under 18s.
So if parents don't know where to turn for professional advice and the waiting list to see the Tavistock is very long then the only place they can go is to groups like Mermaids and Gendered Intelligence. When I joined Mermaids the focus was on how to get treatment as soon as possible for children. There was no suggestion that children could be helped to explore other options. As I left over two years ago that may have changed however on reading that Guardian article it does look as though the priority is still getting medication ASAP even if it is necessary to go private.

Just in case I am jumped on again by Mermaids people I will say that my son was prescribed hormones privately at the age of 16 years 4 months. However he had been fully assessed by the Tavistock before he was 16 and was on the waiting list to see the NHS endocrinologist with a view to starting hormone treatment. That waiting list was around 7 months long. So we went to a private doctor to start the treatment which was possible as he had a full report giving the diagnosis from the Tavistock.

I would in no way have been happy to agree to my son taking hormones before the age of 16. But I don't know how I would have felt if he had been telling me he felt as though he should be male from a very young age, rather than at 14 and a half. Maybe I would have felt like those parents of young children in these articles.

tuba. You did the right thing. There is no reason for you to have to stick your head further above the parapet.

I don't trust journalists to portray an accurate picture of what one has said, anyway.

It must be tortuous for parents being told they must make drastic decisions for their children when the outcome isn't guaranteed and may not help.

handbag As far as I'm aware gender dysphoria has been the medical marker to consider children trans. And their desire to transition has to be 'persistent, consistent and insistent'.

I thought the interview with Poppy's Mum was interesting, although I recognise it will have been trimmed down from word count and steps may have been missed. It goes from her concern on reading about high suicide rates in kids with GID unsupported at home to full social transition and presenting as a girl at school. Is there a stage in between where identity and concepts like gender are explored in therapy to help the young person come to terms with who they are & to consider whether they can live in their own skin as their born sex? There seems to be quite a headlong rush to a fixed sense of identity in presentation at a really young age. I had a flatmate in uni aged 18 who was still trying to work out who she was & went through a number of experimental phases before things settled down in her 2nd year. I find it hard to understand how things can be decided so young. My 11 yo is still working out who he is. I can't bear the thought of boxing someone in so young. It seems so sad. There's plenty of time to explore later on.

Is there a good resource that explains how transgender people know they feel like they are the wrong gender? I'm really confused by this tbh as I don't really believe males feel/do x and females feel/do y and that's how it is so you have to change the person to conform to the gender of the behaviour. I'm not intending to be offensive btw I just can't see the logic.