General Trans Discussion Thread

I'm not suggesting you put yourself at risk, Amy. It's horrible when you feel out of step with your social circle, and fears of ostracism may not be baseless. You need to choose your moments.

It definitely worked on my son. He convinced his GF too. Now he's quite interested in snippets I pass on. Not very interested, but quite.

Datun I'm not sure as I must confess I had to look it up just now to find out what it was! I very much doubt those who are heterosexual would date a transman and those who are bi or lesbian would date a transwoman though I suppose it's unfair of me to assume...

Prawn that sounds like it worked well with your son and I take it he now realises how ridiculous the "defines as a woman" thing is! I'd like to try it. It's difficult (and maybe weak of me) but I don't really want to be known as a "transphobe" or bigot. I used to challenge a bit but it's just so set in stone, debate is pretty much now allowed on this one issue. I might try having conversations with more about it and see how they define "woman".

IAmAmy, one of my young adult sons vaguely assumed that "transwomen are women" until I challenged him to come up with a definition of the word "woman" that covered not only every single woman on the planet but transwomen too. My definition was adult human female, which excluded transwomen while including transmen. His definition couldn't go round in circles, so "a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman" is no good because you're still left without a definition of woman.

He went off for a good old think. When he came back he told me I was right. He couldn't do it. It became meaningless.

My son prides himself on his logical thinking. You may have already tried this on your peers, but if not it might be worth a punt.

And would they date transman, with a vagina (male vagina, of course).

IAmAmy

It's a shame, Amy. What do they make of the cotton ceiling?

If someone calls me a 'menstruator' I will fucking punch them
I'm in menopause- is that not a thing anymore? or is it until men work out how they can have that as well?

Datun it can get very frustrating. A couple of good friends agree with me but it's not something up for debate at our Feminist Society which has decreed that anyone who "defines as a woman" is a woman. I was once pulled up for daring to say that abortion and periods affect women as this is apparently transphobic

I'm not sure why many feminists of my age seem to go down this line, I think a lot of it comes from the vocal social media presence of trans activists. Also it's worrying as there could be other girls at my school who could be Spartacus but are only given one side and told that to think anything else is "transphobic".

Thanks MrsGlitter - great article.

Ah wait! It was BBC radio 4, not strictly Women's Hour...

Btw, 'women's hour' referred to women as menstruaters yesterday...

amaravatti

Funnily enough it was a fairly light bulb moment for me. He was acting a little defensively, because I was talking about 'men'. I watched myself take great pains to explain in a moderate, NAMALT, way. Wrapping it up in words which were palatable in order to get my point across.

Fair enough, he is an 18-year-old boy. That evening, I had dinner with a girlfriend who was unaware of the issues. She connected the dots immediately, almost before I finished my sentence.

Funny that.

I suspect that young men / boys are not that concerned because ... well male privilege, really. They get to keep their spaces and no one is seriously suggesting that they'd be transphobic for not having sex with a transwoman (with or without a dick). There is no equivalent of 'cotton ceiling', I don't think. The transactivists have put more demands on women - that we have sex with them we are lesbian, that we let them into our spaces, that we fight for them with our energy. I see a lot of young women conflicted over this issue. Many are textbook lib fems, but others are variously angry and afraid, especially young lesbian women because there are no lesbian spaces anymore. There are 'queer' spaces that tend to be domindated by gay men and women's spaces that are dominated by TRAs. Other feminist women who want to be activists for women over traditional women's concerns are also ansty because every time they make a claim for women's abortion rights (for example) they have to spend most of the time accommodating the demands of transwomen and transmen to make it all about them. TL;DR - trans impacts on young women more than young men.

IamAmy, it's very heartening to know that not all young feminists have drunk the Trans KoolAid!

Did anyone see this article? NSFW - has a graphic illustration at the top.

inpermanentopposition.com/2016/11/22/dear-trans-women-part-1-by-judith-bell/

Datun same here with teenage son. 'is that really important right now?'

IAmAmy

It must be very difficult for you. My 18-year-old son thinks the trans issue is a storm in a teacup, Largely I think because it doesn't, and hasn't, affected him. his social media group don't mention it much, and if they do it's generally in a less than positive light.

He listens to me, and understands, but the general feeling is that because it's such a minority group, it won't have any effect.

I'd be very interested in knowing why your peer group is so interested, and why they are onboard with it all.

Personally I think one has a huge mind shift, when one sees what a lot of trans activists say, and how they say it. As soon as you see them as men, instead of women, it all makes a lot more sense, and the pieces fall into place.

I suspect that's why older people see it quicker. A lifetime of talking to men hones your radar.

As a contrast to the statistics for trans suicide and murder, can I remind you of the excellent Twitter account @CountDeadWomen which has some heartbreaking statistics for UK women killed by men (or where a man was the prime suspect).

Can I just say 1. I think I am Spartacus and 2. Why are girls my age, at my school, at my school's feminist society, so obsessed with trans issues? I really feel like I'm on my own not agreeing with them and am relieved to see opinions on here.

www.femaleerasure.com/ - Just came across this newly published book that seems to be talking about the issues that are being raised here. One for the crimbo list perhaps?

In the UK this year, one trans person has committed suicide. None have been murder victims.

One has, however, been a murderer.

I think its also worth noting that although the Trans Murder Monitoring Project claims "295 reported murders of trans and gender-diverse people between 1 October 2015 and 30 September 2016 " internationally for TDOR 2016, the vast majority are in Brazil whereas in the UK there is only one listed, and that is Vikki Thompson, who wasnt murdered but committed suicide in prison, which they are claiming as a murder because Vikki was in a male prison.

Then there was this on Twitter, a slide used by Mermaids to emphasise the suicide problem amongst trans ppl to a conference full of lawyers, which claimed that 48% of "more than 2000 trans people in the UK" had attempted suicide, "35% in the past year" - only it turns out the sample that gave that statistic comprised all of 27 trans people. Not 2000+, twenty seven. See:
mobile.twitter.com/amoozeboosh/status/799900777439490048

I wonder what the real stats on violence against trans males are. It seems to me if there was a real case to make about the violence they endure they a) wouldnt need to lie about it and b) they would be more concerned with getting the facts out about that than claiming misgendering is violence. I wonder what the real stats on suicide are. I mean, if a third of all UK trans ppl tried to commit suicide last year, they must have a really, really low success rate - are these serious attempts or more the "I thought about it once" kind??

I dont want to be cynical or lacking empathy about this but the trans activists just seem to lie and make shit up so much of the time, I dont feel I can believe any single thing they say anymore. I want real honest facts and stats. Why do they lie so much if they have a genuine cause?

Another nail in the coffin of women's sport: Transgender Cyclist is Top Female Finisher at El Tour de Tucson

Not a single actual woman gets a mention in the article and yet men are named who finished as low as 12th

www.ktvh.com/2016/11/montana-woman-charged-raping-minor

"According to court documents, Brown — formerly known as Albert Allen Brown — identifies as a woman but is still legally a man.

Brown had been living with the family of a 15-year-old girl and was allegedly involved in a sexual relationship with the teen.

The girl’s mother and mother’s boyfriend were allegedly aware of the relationship.

Brown is a registered sex offender for having sex with a 10-year-old during the early 2000s. Brown was approximately 12 years old at the time and was still identifying as a male."

The last quoted paragraph above seems to hint at a consensual underage relationship, but in fact Albert Allen Brown "was convicted of one count of sexual intercourse without consent against a 10-year-old child, according to the state’s sex-offender registry."
according to this news story from 2007:
www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/belgrade-high-suspends-teen-sex-offender/article_1f61b7f7-24b4-5772-9929-5c95cd97c604.html

So - in the past week a well known MTT "trans woman" activist has murdered two lesbian women and their son, another MTT convicted child rapist has been charged with raping another underage girl, oh, and a third MTT has been charged with sexual offences against an underage boy:

"A transgender woman who accused three teens, including a 15-year-old boy, of slashing her with a hatchet during a robbery has been arrested and accused of committing a sex act with the under-aged teen in the minutes before the robbery.

The robbery victim, Derrick Horton, who currently goes by the name Ralayzia Taylor, suggested to police that the Nov. 7 incident was a random act of violence that occurred because she is gay and transgender. However, investigators said Friday that subsequent interviews revealed Taylor and the 15-year-old had engaged in a sex act prior to the assault.

As a result, detectives have charged Taylor, 24, with one count of statutory sex offense and one count of indecent liberties with a child, said a police statement."
www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article115663713.html

It Never Happens.
Hormones Make Them Like Kittens.
etc.

I used to spend time on the Guardian Comment is Free until they put me on pre-mod for my failure to toe the trans party line. That was years ago now, and I haven't commented there since, on anything.

Gets on my tits when the site asks me for donations. Are they joking? I don't care if they go bust now they've thrown women under the bus.

The guardian is its own parody these days tbf.

Among the people I know nobody thinks transwomen are actually women. They think they're sad, rather pathetic individuals and concerned not to say anything that knocks their fragile self-image. Mind you, all of the people I've spoken to think transwomen are gay men who have had surgery. When I tell them the statistics you can see their consternation.