General Trans Discussion Thread

No. On replaces nous (we) which is already genderless, not il/elle

Well actually "on" is third person singular (like he/she), not first person plural (like we). It can be used to replace 'we' or 'you' and even 'they', depending on context, but also he or she.

Jane Fae is a transwoman who regularly writes articles disregarding women's feelings and needs, I don't like the attempts to erase gender here.

Where's Sam?

She's over there.
He's over there
They're over there...

But when Sam is near you and you are not sure if they're male or female..

He said..
She said...
Ze said?

"in French you can say "on" instead of "il" or "elle"."

No. On replaces nous (we) which is already genderless, not il/elle.

I know some gender neutral person use 'they'.

But that feels strange if the person is with you or near you and you are talking about them.

Yes, the only gender neutral words we have are "it", and that's not particularly polite especially when talking about a person, or "one", which is too formal for most interactions.

Actually it would be really handy to have a gender neutral way of saying things, to avoid the awkwardness of he/she. Most languages have this, e.g. in French you can say "on" instead of "il" or "elle".

But that's got nothing to do with TA craziness and preferred pronouns.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/14/non-gendered-pronouns-trans-people-he-she-ze

More bollocks.

I can't imagine it will take longer than 10-15 years, long enough for today's trans teenagers to wake up to the fact that they have sterilized themselves and undergone body mods for reasons that have nothing to do with being "born in the wrong body". Transmen, in particular, seem to be realising their mistake in droves at the moment. Guide on Raging Stars recruited detransitioners to fill in her survey on Tumblr. She was only looking for participants over the course of a fortnight, and yet more than 200 young women signed up. And we are told that detransition "never happens". Yeah, right.

Then there's the crime angle. If the UK goes for self-declaration for transwomen in showers, hospital, shelters and changing rooms there is bound to be a surge in assaults as various fetishists and predators take advantage. Whether that will make an impact is dubious. Women being attacked hasn't been a huge priority in the past. If kids are victimized, which they inevitably will be, that will change things. It wouldn't take many attacks on young girls in showers for people to sit up and take notice.

The right wing tend to express their concern in terms of my wife, my daughter, but they share my own concerns about the safety of women and girls, albeit from a different perspective.

I don't have an issue with people playing with gender. Dress how you like. It's the insistence that transgender males can change sex and that they should have access to women only spaces that I reject.

I wonder why we have pronouns for 'his' and 'hers'?

We don't have pronouns to differentiate between other characteristics.

If someone does identify as neither 'male' or 'female', should they be called 'him' or 'her?

(even though I'm not entirely sure how you can tell how someone identifies and what that is supposed to mean in RL)

I think the neutral pronouns are the preferred form of address for gender fluid or queer people .... ????

Where has the insistence on neutral pronouns come from? I wasn't aware that the TRAs were even pushing for this. Doesn't it contradict their 'I am a woman' viewpoint?

Judging by the comments under the articles, this is making the ideology look ridiculously precious - not something I would have thought the TRAs wanted.

It needs to happen sooner rather than later before too many are hurt.

It's heartening to see articles in the mainstream media that question trans orthodoxy. It doesn't much bother me whether it's left or right wing. I may disagree with them on other issues, but I'm not overly fussed about ideological purity.

I suspect it's the issue of trans kids that will send the whole toxic edifice tumbling. Roll on the day.

The left has never had much attention to spare for women, Ibelieve. There's a saying that the right think each woman should be a man's property while the left think women should belong to all of them.

Look at how the Guardian reported the New Year attacks in Cologne. Their main concern was racial profiling of the offenders. Heaven forbid that anyone mention cultural factors. The victims of the attacks hardly warranted a mention. Women always go to the back of the queue where the left is concerned.

When class full of children were asked to describe their gender identity, one girl said well on balance I think I'm just normal. She was put in detention for not saying cis.

Sarah vine has an article in the DM today criticising the transfer agenda, including forcing kids to use the word cis.

Is it just me that's seeing a bit of an uptick in critical articles lately?

It's not fair, it's brave / progressive /

Two bites at the effectively the same cherry?

How is that fair?

(In the time it took to write my 2nd post, it fixed itself.)

Great. Even the MN frowny face is now presenting as something else.

Why can't the gender fluid actor just go in the actor shortlist? It's not even as if he is a proper full-time transgender actor. If I recall, Jared Leto only went on the male shortlists for his Dallas Buyers Club role. Surely there's already precedent? It's hard enough for women to get decent roles and recognition for them. Enough already!

Terrific