woman loses residency of son she was raising as daughter

ATM I'm genuinely pleased you are much happier with your sex life than you were.

But given the context was regarding the sex life of folk who have had genital surgery, which you haven't, you have no basis for disagreeing that it is likely to be unsatisfactory at best.

Get the surgery, then you'll be qualified to offer an opinion.

No, this is a different case that I came across. It was an article written 6 days ago

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3883880/Parents-bitter-battle-child-s-gender-Father-brands-controversial-transgender-charity-meddlers-case-mother-dressing-son-five-girl.html?0p19G=c

Hopefully the link will work 😁

Gedds, if when you mention the 5 year old you're referring to the boy who was the subject of the recent court case, a much better source of information than the press is the judge's ruling. You can find it here It's long but once you have read it no one will be able to bamboozle you about it, and you can explain the facts to anyone who questions the decision. I know once I had read it I was in no doubt that the judge was right.

ATM

So it's only relevant to the thread when YOU talk about your successful sex life and people's bigoted behaviour when it comes to choosing partners based on their genitals.

So would you agree it's better if you can have a bit of a water off a duck's back attitude?
I would also be concerned that teenagers who are trans and spend a lot of time in a trans bubble online and are used to their families affirming their trans identity are in for a shock when the real world doesn't believe in it

That's never going to change, ATM. Surely you, as a realist, get that?

ATM. as far as I remember you haven't had surgery yet? I may be mistaken.

I'm sorry - I thought this thread was about trans kids. Feel free to get back on track.

I imagine if you're trans then sadly you have to get used to being misgendered

You do. Especially on here.

And the fact that trans suicide rates have been exaggerated is brilliant news isn't it although of course even one is too many.

Thanks Datun that's the exact post! You're a star!

She analyses the stats provided by trans sites and The Samaritans.

01/11/2016 17:27 WombOfOnesOwn
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2769068-To-think-the-trans-trend-is-very-damaging-title-edited-by-MNHQ?msgid=64655627

A good idea to help children build resilience so they're not shocked that most other people don't agree they're actually the opposite sex.

Or perhaps don't let them believe that they are the opposite sex...

Not to just tell the child 'don't be silly, you're a girl. Human female. You'll never be a boy'

But that is the truth. They need to work out who they are, but within the confines of what is actually possible. Wanting to be an astronaut is very unlikely, but is possible. Becoming the opposite sex is impossible, and will always be so.

So sad about the child you linked to. He obviously had many other problems in his life if being called a girl by hospital staff caused him to kill himself. I imagine if you're trans then sadly you have to get used to being miagendered. A good idea to help children build resilience so they're not shocked that most other people don't agree they're actually the opposite sex.

womb put up a very interesting post about suicides ATM. I suggest you read it.

ATM. as far as I remember you haven't had surgery yet? I may be mistaken.

I mostly remember you saying there was no answer to the question of how we can distinguish a transwoman from a cross dresser with AGP (or any other sexual predator dressed as a woman).

She's now desisting and very not dead, despite having a mum with a polluted mind!

But you actually listened, didn't you? Gave her the chance to explore and talk to people about it. Had an open mind. Maybe even looked into outcomes and treatments.

Which is what I want to see happening.

I don't want kids medicated and thrown onto puberty suppressing drugs the second they pick up a barbie doll. I want parents to realise that their child might be trans and help them explore that in the right way.

Not to just tell the child 'don't be silly, you're a girl. Human female. You'll never be a boy'.

I'm not saying every GNC child is trans. A lot of them are exploring, some are just testing their boundaries, others might grow up to be non-heterosexual. But some of them will actually be trans (probably more than 1/5th of them).

You can listen, help them, be a good parent. Or you can keep saying 'you can't change sex' over and over with your fingers in your ears. It doesn't make a great epitaph.

I don't know what kind of person would try and frighten parents by using untrue information about suicide rates

A realist. Someone who is trying to save the lives of trans people.

And untrue? I personally know people who have attempted suicide, have self-harmed and have sadly taken their own lives. At many different ages.

You really don't have to look far to find the data:

www.advocate.com/transgender/2015/10/07/san-diego-mourns-fourth-trans-teen-lost-suicide-year
yspp.org/about_suicide/statistics.htm
www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/10/07/trans-teen-killed-himself-after-hospital-staff-kept-calling-him-a-girl/

Oh thank goodness you're here now ATransMum - we can stop worrying about the ever so serious side effects of encouraging children to get genital surgery because YOU have been enjoying your sex life. We can all go home now - what a relief.

As someone who has worked with women and girls who've been subject to FGM (of varying severity) I find it appalling that anyone would try to cast "bottom" surgery in a positive life, let alone try to pretend that you can have a fulfilling sex life afterwards. To talk to children about sex change operations as if they are easy and won't have a very serious impact on them in the future is pure mendacity and smacks of narcissism.

So anyone who doesn't think you're a potential partner because they're either lesbians or straight men and therefore not attracted to you because you're the wrong sex for their sexuality are "bigots", are they ATM? Is that what you're saying by "can't see past my gender history"? What a very disingenuous phrase.

Funny because my real world experience and the experience of a significant amount of my peers would contradict your somewhat bigoted opinion

It is not bigoted. Straight people are attracted to the opposite sex, gay to the same sex. When it comes to sexuality genitals do matter.

That kind of advice is unhelpful, not medically relevant and could well pollute the minds of a parent.

That's not our "job".

Mermaids had a niche in the polluting parents minds field.

The problem is, taking MtT as an example if the MtT is sexually attracted to women, straight are unlikely to be attracted to them as they present as women, and gay women are unlikely to be attracted to them as they are male. The converse is true for FtT.

Really? Funny because my real world experience and the experience of a significant amount of my peers would contradict your somewhat bigoted opinion.

It's trans woman and trans man, just in case you forgot.

The only narrowing of my potential pool of partners is the bigoted ones that can't see past my gender history. Which can only be a good thing.

Me too, LyndanotLinda. I've got no time for Paris Lees, who memorably said "I like being eye-fucked on the escalator" and "I don't feel frightened when some spunky dude comes up and talks to me" while taking potshots at women whose discomfort with street harassment "infantilizes" them. People who grow up with male strength and privilege never sound like women. They're blind to the fact that women can't choose not to be the targets of predatory men. Nor do they appreciate the constant wariness all women feel when vulnerable to male violence. Paris Lees finds street harassment sexually arousing, and so do the men who inflict it. Strange, that.

Bloody insulting to parents who have not had their minds "polluted" but have thought carefully about things and have always put their child's best interests to the fore, to suggest that they are wrong not to go full steam ahead with transition.
I'm so glad to hear that your dd had started to come to terms with her female body, Hypothetical

ATransMum I'm not sure you've read me correctly. I'm not saying GNC, gender dysphoric people or transgender people exist. I'm simply saying it's not possible to change sex however much surgery you have. Anyone can, and should, present how they want and be accepted for it.

No I'm not trans, but like others for a long time growing up I hated being a female and longed to be be male. I wanted my breasts removed and was horrified by my periods - honestly, it can be distressing losing what seems a large amount of blood out of your vagina. I do have a daughter who nearly 5 years ago suddenly announced she was transgender - I'm not going to go into our back story again - it's on here under my current name.

Your AFAB child says 'I want to be a boy'. Consistently, persistenly, over several years, and is self harming and has attempted suicide because they are going through puberty and does't want their breasts to grow any more.

You can:

a) Tell them they can't change sex.
b) Listen to them and talk to agencies like Tavistock about the right options

Which one do you think gives the child the best medical chance and quality of life?

Now, I've actually been in this situation, and we did both. As others have said, it's biologically impossible to change sex. We kept our debates calm and logical - never demanded she agree with us, but would question why she felt as she did.

That kind of advice is unhelpful, not medically relevant and could well pollute the minds of a parent. It's like prescribing homeopathy for cancer patients - it doesn't work.

She's now desisting and very not dead, despite having a mum with a polluted mind!

I do. People suffering from narcissistic personality and other cluster B disorders who are validated by this narrative and who consider non trans children and women collateral damage in their glorious life-affirming cause.

And really fucking stupid people who don't question these things. Those too.