woman loses residency of son she was raising as daughter

Did any of you Mermaids cheerleaders bother to read Elsa and Tubas' posts? Or have you just dismissed them in the same way as you dismissed the (very thoughtful and considered) judgement from the judge in J's case?

Really, you're not doing Mermaids any favours. You're coming across as shambolic and massively unprofessional. Which is fine in some ways because, as you say, you're just a group of parents supporting one another. It's a bit less fine when you're purporting to advise schools, the government and the NHS. Then the lack of governance and responsibility for safeguarding become a real concern.

To all the new posters that have clearly been asked to post by a Mermaids committee member - PLEASE if you're going to put your name to something you post, read the judge's summary in full first.

And ask yourselves why this charity has asked you to add their voice, in your name, to this debate.

The mother in the case was NOT prevented from defending herself. If Mermaids are telling you that they are lying. The mother has simply been prevented from going to the press in order to preserve the privacy of her child.

All evidence shows that the more children are told about "transition" as a solution to their problems, the more they want to do it. All these pro-Mermaids parents act like if they'd never taken their kid to Mermaids, their kids would be just as invested in gender transition. In reality, Mermaids is leading your children down a primrose path that ends with sterilization -- predominantly for children who are gay, or sexual abuse victims, or autistic.

What a "nice" organization. How "helpful" it must be to have other parents on "your side" when you're trying to justify in your head why this one particular transformation obsession a child can develop is REAL AND TRUE while others are just fantasies. How "lifesaving" it must be to be able to say "look, there are others doing it, and our lives are quite hard, so you shouldn't judge us."

A club of parents, half hoodwinked into pseudoscience, half jumping in with both feet so they can get attention as a Brave Parent of a Trans Child. What a stellar charity.

Thanks rufus I was too busy with baby animals to notice

Sorry fela

Meant started a thread

fela

buffy76 has also posted on the feminist board

Very sad case all round

buffy why are you asking for support for you as a parent of a trans child on a thread about a child who isn't trans?

I'd like to hear from presumably the large number of parents who had possibly trans children and were advised by Mermaids that they didn't think they were trans and Mermaids wasn't the right path.

Its really hard for mums raising children with gender dysphoria. Please try to keep open minded and support them. Thank you xxxx

I'm sure it is, I'm sure a lot of people on this thread understand how hard it must be from their own experiences of parenting.

What I am concerned about is that in this particular case there is plenty of evidence to suggest this was not the case with this child, yet still Mermaids is opposing the decision of the court and encouraging people to think the judgement is wrong, simply on the grounds that they disagree with it. I haven't seen any coherent arguments with the evidence presented in the court judgement, but quite a lot of misleading statements and incorrect summaries.

I hope that the posters who think it is wrong that the mother in this case has been ordered not to identify her child to the press don't have any kind of professional dealings with vulnerable children

Its hard to understand what it might be like for a mum listening to her child cry at night about the idea of growing a beard etc, terrified of turning into a man.
Its hard to imagine I know.
But I do know that most people do not hope their child will be trans. They hope its a phase, they hope that the fact the child still likes football etc means they cant really identify as a girl.
There is a HUGE gap between being a tom boy / liking lego or the other way round liking princess stuff etc and actually feeling inside like you were born in the wrong body.
Its so painful to see your child find their gender unbareable.
Please try to imagine, most parents are just doing their best, and most parents would not wish the life of being trans and all the difficulties and discrimination that comes with on their child. All you want is for your child to have as few challenges in life as possible,
But what I know is no matter how much boys clothes, lego, star wars toys etc you throw at a child, you can not MAKE them feel like a boy. Our children are who they are, and most mums are just trying to listen to their children and allow them to feel comfortable.
Its really hard for mums raising children with gender dysphoria. Please try to keep open minded and support them. Thank you xxxx

The poor child is being torn apart and not once has it been mentioned that anybody has tried to ascertain and understand what he/she/they want.
This is utter rubbish. The judgment was very clear that the court had asked an experienced and independent psychologist to assess what the child wanted. They concluded there was no evidence they wanted to be anything other than a boy.
Its great you've found support from Mermaids, coming herevents to mix your positive story up with incorrect representation of a court judgment doesn't help their cause.
Mermaids would be better looking at safeguarding procedures and how they can prevent this happening on future rather than insisting they know more about this case than a judge who's been involved in a thorough investigation.
I think the judgement was released precisely to counter this narrative, it's rare for these to be released.

TO RELIEVE THE MENTAL AND EMOTIONAL STRESS OF ALL PERSONS AGED 19 YEARS AND UNDER WHO ARE IN ANY MANNER AFFECTED BY GENDER IDENTITY ISSUES, AND THERE (sic) FAMILIES, AND TO ADVANCE PUBLIC EDUCATION IN THE SAME

Within that, is there any room for gender criticism? I imagine that is a powerful tool in the distress relieving arsenal.

If Mermaids have a stated aim of supporting both children with gender issues and their families then I hope they have a very clear COI policy. Otherwise they run a real risk of failing to safeguard children. Any charity or org that deals with children or vulnerable adults should have safeguarding as their top priority. Doing harm to your beneficiaries is the worst sort of failure.

I'm bothered by some of the posts by parents connected with Mermaids on here. You're also vulnerable and, given Mermaids has been a lifeline to you, your natural instinct is to want to stick up for them. I understand that, I've been there in a completely different capacity (another peer-support charity). Take a step back and breathe. Remember that you are fighting for your child's wellbeing and that may not always be synonymous with fighting for the charity that has supported you thus far.

I am a parent of a young transgender child. I feel very deeply for child J whose voice has not been heard. People comment and are very quick to judge without knowing the full facts, and of course you won't get to hear the facts of the case because the judge has placed a gagging order on the mother, preventing her from telling her side of the story. I find it sad that some people will just follow whatever they read in the media. Can you for a moment imagine that you have been accused of abusing your child? Your child is taken from you. You have accusations made against you for which no evidence is offered and yet is used in judgement. The only evidence presented is heavily biased and all other evidence is totally ignored. Then, you are judged and told you must not speak and have no opportunity to defend yourself. Can you imsgine how all of that feels? The poor child is being torn apart and not once has it been mentioned that anybody has tried to ascertain and understand what he/she/they want.

To address criticism about the Mermaids charity. I honestly don't know what I would have done without their support, their help with understanding what was going on with our child and how to go about getting the help we needed. Mermaids are a vital resource. They have never been anything other than completely professional, kind and compassionate. They do not seek to influence how we interact with our child and have never made suggestions, just listened and provided information. The mutual support we gain from each other as Mermaid parents is invaluable, as I'm sure some of you also do here at mumsnet.

With our child (and we do have others of both sexes) we held off seeking support for several years thinking may be we are wrong, may be our child was just gender atypical, may be things would be different in a year or so. It became increasingly obvious however that our child's outward gender was causing severe distress and unhappiness. What sort if parents would we be if we ignored this? Our child was telling us that they ARE the opposite gender to the one into which they were born. What would be the consequences if we didn't support our child? This was much, much more than a child wanting to dress differently and play with toys usually associated with the opposite gender. It affected their self-esteem, it made them desperately unhappy, it meant they had no friends because they didn't fit in with the peers of their birth gender and were rejected by peers of the other gender. Our child despised their body parts, hated their hair, had no confidence, wouldn't have their photo taken or look in the mirror and rarely ever smiled. Our child stopped participating in a sport they loved because they felt strongly they werr on the wrong team and had zero interest in socialising with these team mates.

Our child didn't have any concept of what 'transgender' was and we knew very little either for that matter. Our child had never watched any reality TV or celebrity programmes and so was not aware of any transgender figure to copy or idolise. We have brought our children up in the same ways. Offering both gender specific and non gender specific clothing, toys and experiences. With support from The Tavistock and Portman Gender Identity Clinic and from Mermaids we have let our child take the lead in who they want to be and how they express themselves. This was far from an easy decision. I have experienced this as a type of grief. I felt desperately sad at the loss of the child I thought I'd had, the name we had so carefully chosen and the hopes and dreams we'd had for them. Over time we have come to see that our child is still with us, still the same bright, cheeky personality with the same potential, just a different gender. I do still get days where I feel sad but my own feelings are far less important than my child's happiness. Our child is now confident in themselves, very happy, outgoing and thriving knowing that we support them in being who they are and whoever they need to be in the future.

I will never apologise for supporting my child or be made to feel bad for doing so. We will love our child unconditionally whatever the future holds. Their future and happiness is what matters most, not what gender they were born into or how they identify.

Apparently Mermaids will be on Newsnight tonight - could be an interesting watch....

It comes to something when a charity has to recruit people to dive bomb a Mumsnet thread instead of standing upright for their own ethos.

Mermaids are an amazing charity

Yes, I remember lots of people making a lot of similar noise about Kids Company before it folded up.

Of course if you have benefited from a particular charity, you will think it is wonderful. Looking at it from the outside, I can't help feeling the mother in this case has not, in the long run, been helped very much since she's ended up losing custody of her child.

At least with all the other Mermaids folk coming over here, they are leaving their wee bubble, they might learn something too.

It's like they think we're stupid and just need speaking to in calm but firm tones, with occasional "think of the children" emotional blackmail appeals thrown in.

Haha yes. I've been reading this thread with an increasingly face.
Do you all new posters really think your comments will somehow repair the image of Mermaids?

Oh, here's another one. Come on, this is soooo transparent (didya see what I did there??). Do you honestly think anyone is going to change their very valid opinions on Mermaids because of you shower?

and it is up to you as a family to do what is best for your child. To love and support them

Love and support is great, khaddy. Taking as gospel the opinions of an organisation who have an agenda, and no real expertise: not so great. Promoting the narrative that if you don't accept their agenda as gospel truth then children will commit suicide: absolutely appalling.

It never fails to astound me that people can read the intelligent, thoughtful, well researched posts on trans issues and come to the conclusion that we all need more educating.