woman loses residency of son she was raising as daughter

There is a "thread" above.

Anyone having flashbacks to the previous lengthy discursive Feminist Chat that ATransMum derailed?

Felascloak

I have a feeling something very strong was smoked before dotting down that rant of hatred, misogyny and racism

Felascloak if by "informative" you mean "batshit on almost every possible axis", then I agree entirely!

Huffpost, pinknews, everydayfeminism and plenty of other LGBT safe space sites do not have anything like this on them. They have informative articles which echo the right course of action

All sites with no political or social agenda to peddle then. Completely unbiased and telling the truth because it's what you want to hear. It's like saying that the daily mail is run by communists

Point 3 in the animal rights article is particularly informative

To all the new posters here from Mermaids: I understand what tubas is saying - a group where you find other parents who are going through similar things to you, in a difficult world, is an immensely valuable thing, and I understand why you feel great loyalty towards it and incredibly defensive of it.

I think if Mermaids had remained a parent support circle, that would be one thing, though many of us would still have very serious questions about the homophobia amongst it's spokespeople, and the dangerous narrative (trans your child or they will die) it appears to be promoting to the parents who come for help. But they have set themselves up as experts in this field, when they are not, and on the back of that they are trying to establish norms in public policy which would harm children if they took off.

everydayfeminism.com/2015/11/trans-women-reproductive-justice/

everydayfeminism.com/2016/03/animal-rights-oppressive/

Huffpost, pinknews, everydayfeminism and plenty of other LGBT safe space sites do not have anything like this on them.

ATransMum I have been knocking around the LGBT+ movement for, ooh, about 35 years, and used to read Pink News when it was an actual newspaper on actual paper. It's a news site, mostly run by gay men who have no real interest in or understanding of women's politics, and that noise you year is the hollow laughter of women around the movement when they hear you describe it as an "LGBT safe space". I would be fascinated if they've ever printed a thoughtful piece on why dysphoria in children doesn't always mean they are trans - so if you have one, please do feel free to link it here.

"Everyday feminism" is a snake oil site designed to make women feel shit about themselves so they can then sell their self-help courses to them. It is widely mocked by actual feminists, who can see the nonsense it peddles. My own point of realising what a bunch of terrible clickbait bastards they are was when I found myself reading a perfectly serious EverydayFeminism article on why mixed marriages (Black people going out with white people) are bad. I sat up, thought "what a bunch of racist bollocks" and have never taken anything they have said seriously again.

I've never seen a "why transition isn't always the answer" article on HuffPo, but again, I'd be really interested to read one.

Huffpost, pinknews, everydayfeminism and plenty of other LGBT safe space sites do not have anything like this on them. They have informative articles which echo the right course of action

Everyday feminism??!!!

I'd love to see if Atransmum can come up with ANY desistance literature or pamphlets or articles about what to do if you're not sure you're trans any more. Please, transmum, do tell us what you find. I'll be waiting.

WankingMonkey

There are 3 little dots in the right hand corner under each post. Of you click you can bookmark ❤

Bookmarking..haven't read yet but not sure how to bookmark for later without posting.

Tubas
Hugh fottosofatfosm

Mermaids. Was it a committee decision to invade MN? I think Mermaids should change its name. Trolls might fit it better.

•enthralled

But what I know is no matter how much boys clothes, lego, star wars toys etc you throw at a child, you can not MAKE them feel like a boy

FFS this is the OPPOSITE of what people here are saying. Maybe if you were not so invested in things being boys things or girls things, you wouldn't be enthralles with an organisation that sterilises and castrates their lesbian and gay children.

Atransmum, could you link to some of the online examples that explain to kids that think they might be trans that they might not be, and why that might be the case.

Also, the kind of language you're using where you straw man someone else's argument and then add because reasons is exactly that kind of sociolect that strongly suggests you're part of that online social justice community that is causing concerns and is certainly not what the rest of the Internet is like.

Transmum, are you really saying other trans forums online don't say the same thing? Please, parents, do your own research. The other sites transmum mentions are news sites, not forums where kids are asking questions. The reddit community I mentioned is the largest trans community on reddit and one of the largest ones online. Susans.org and other prominent transfer forums have the same type of grooming. If you bothered to read the links I left, you would see that some of the people brought up aren't even on reddit, but are hugely influential YouTube video bloggers and so on. This happens everywhere kids go to look for information on trans issues.

Susie Green was just on Newsnight - along with (I think) Stephanie Davis-Arai. The thing that really stood out for me was that SG made her arguments via anecdotes, where SDA used facts and data whilst being constantly interrupted. The piece was much too short though - the topic deserves and needs much more time.

Some of what these new posters from Mumsnet are saying is correct. The support from other parents who are in the same situation as you is invaluable. Yes there is no other organisation offering this support so it is a lifeline for many families. The opportunity for children and teens to meet other young people who are gender variant is really helpful in helping them feel less alone.So yes Mermaids does some good work which is not replicated anywhere.

However there is a downside to parents meeting others who have gone through this already. New parents may hear horror stories about how long their child will have to wait for a diagnosis then will have a long wait for blockers and hormones. They may meet parents who are disenfranchised with how their child was treated and may offer ideas on how to short cut the system; what to say to the clinics to move forward more quickly. They might advise you or even assist you in obtaining hormones from the internet.

Before anyone from Mermaids accuses me again of hypocrisy I will admit that I was influenced by this sort of advice from existing members myself. I was distraught and was so happy to find people who understood that I didn't realise that these were parents just like me, just further along the journey. After listening to them I did try to accelerate treatment for my child although never by hoodwinking the clinics or obtaining drugs illegally.

Having said this I stress that this was the situation during the time I was with Mermaids up to February 2014. The situation may have changed since. I really hope it has. Only Mermaids can say if it has. It would be a crying shame if the only support group of this kind was lost due to bad practice.

For:

This is the way gender non-conforming teens are treated all over the internet

read:

on this one specific site where I found lots of stuffs so like the whole internet must be like that because reasons

How many sites would you like me to link articles from where this isn't the case, where children who might be trans are given helpful and supportive advice?

Huffpost, pinknews, everydayfeminism and plenty of other LGBT safe space sites do not have anything like this on them. They have informative articles which echo the right course of action (mostly, go explore, get counselling, wait and see).

WombOfOnesOwn I love you.

It's not just Mermaids that acts this way. This is the way gender non-conforming teens are treated all over the internet, as well.

transgenderreality.com/2016/08/17/the-words-asktransgender-commenters-dont-want-teens-to-see/

Look at the kinds of comments that get deleted. Are they comments full of hate and vitriol? Watch how kids spiral into obsession after a few weeks of internet adults telling them that transition is the only option:

transgenderreality.com/2015/05/15/omfg-i-have-waited-so-long-teen-goes-from-questioning-to-taking-hormones-in-three-months/

What's more, kids online are being groomed by adults in how to threaten suicide and tell their parents the right lies to get hormones and surgeries, and told that if their parents don't agree, they should self-medicate:

transgenderreality.com/2016/03/15/lie-to-them-to-get-hrt-give-them-the-good-old-narrative/
transgenderreality.com/2016/05/13/i-hide-my-meds-in-my-saxophone-case-self-medding-advice-to-minors/

Children are being actively groomed by trans adults who tell them that any discomfort with social roles or clothing is a sign of being trans, and that "cis" children do not think that way: transgenderreality.com/2016/07/30/do-you-feel-uncomfortable-with-yourself-in-some-way/
transgenderreality.com/2015/12/02/a-magical-pill-to-bypass-suffering-how-teens-are-persuaded-to-start-transition/

More:

transgenderreality.com/2015/04/21/youre-in-the-last-stages-of-denial/
transgenderreality.com/2015/04/20/at-least-get-on-blockers-at-the-very-least-youll-regret-waiting-further/
transgenderreality.com/2016/08/04/questioning-teens-and-social-contagion/
transgenderreality.com/2015/09/11/youll-be-miserable-and-unhappy-with-your-body-for-the-rest-of-your-life/
transgenderreality.com/2015/12/14/i-didnt-like-doing-all-the-stereotypical-girl-things/

When parents with significant signs of mental issues around their child and gender show up to talk about these issues, they're encouraged and told they're great parents:

transgenderreality.com/2015/07/17/i-would-not-be-sad-to-see-his-male-body-go-away/
If your child says they're trans, be AWARE of what they're doing on the internet, who they're talking to, and what they're talking about. Many adults online love to groom children into these behaviors, possibly to justify their own adult transitions to themselves.

"Let them figure it out themselves in time" ... why is this the line? This is the same as when American creationists say "Well, you can't PROVE anything, so you should teach creationism and evolutionary theory alongside one another."

All opinions aren't equally valid. The notion that a child's brain could have been born into the wrong body is not a valid opinion. End of story.

Just wanted to reiterate that it's still not totally clear whether the child at the centre of this case is trans or not. Please don't put them in either category, let them figure it out themselves in time.

However the trans status of the child is actually irrelevant to the case.

The case is about whether the child is better off being taken out of the care of the mother. Which whilst unusual is sometimes the right thing to do.