woman loses residency of son she was raising as daughter

As far as I know, if your are GNC, then you are not cis, so GNC = trans

^^ who is "we" here?

I think ATransMum has forgotten she's not posting on the Mermaids forums!

I don't see there's anything "infamous" about Walt Heyer, ATM. His site, Sex Change Regret, has some very interesting material and links. He seems to have evidence that far more people regret transition than you say.

What are you if you're not GNC? Gender conforming? What does that mean?

I'd really genuinely love to understand but I just don't get it. Unless it's more like a spectrum and actually it's only a tiny minority of people that are gender conforming and the rest of us are all "trans"!

Good question Flora

^^ who is "we" here?

@Gidds

Being a supportive and open minded parent and doing what is best for the child is what we like to see. Letting your child explore their gender and be gender non-confirming is fine.

Hormone blockers should only really be used if your child is having significant issues with puberty, not as a default treatment.

Whether they are transgender and/or need to transition is something you can figure out in time.

As your points suggest, ipost, there is no central record keeping. There are numerous reasons for this but one, that I find particularly concerning, is that few researchers are prepared to work with this group because every single detail of any research is so contentious. Poor Ray Blanchard, I think it was, who identified and described autogynaephilia, was (and I think still is) absolutely hounded by TRAs. Who is going to risk interacting with this patient group again?

The Tavistock keeps records but those only cover their patients, which in terms of trans teens is not exhaustive. After all we know that Susie Green of Mermaids got her son's SRS and hormones overseas. Other parents have presumably done the same.

And then there's the whole "who is transgender?" thing. As it seems to be anyone who feels like it today, it's impossible to measure in any useful way.

Atransmum - excuse my ignorance, but I had to look into GNC as its not actually something I had heard of. However, give what I read this is how I have personally been dealing with my child's sudden gender dysmorphia simply. I certainly have no intention of going down the hormonal blocking route or surgery, mainly because I think she's both confused and being led by the Internet world and simply because at her age, I don't believe we need to go down what I believe is quite an extreme route and would only be considered once she was 18. But that's my personal opinion based upon my family. As I stressed to my child and my others who have their own special needs, I see it as we are who we are and that's it, we don't need to be defined by gender or what society perseves as acceptable gender or dress code etc etc. But as a parent we can only support and guide the best we can

iPost and presumably the "gender fluid" would transition and detransition multiple times a day/week/month...

Detransition rates are still at a couple of percent

What system is being used to generate an accurate measure or transistion v detransition ?

People who have surgery/prescribed hormones may, or may not have years long follow up.

People who have private surgery overseas, or buy hormones over the internet may have an even higher degree of invisibility in terms of longer term follow up.

People who have neither surgery, nor take hormones (which as I understand it is not considered a less valid for of transition) likewise.

Then you have , she was making a point about the ease of legal transistion, other non-trans people may have their own reasons for changing their legal gender status, which may, or may not be permement. But given that trans people are a tiny minority even a small number of mischievous legal gender changes could have the capacity to distort the overall number and cast doubt on the relative number of detransistioners, couldn't they ?

Is there some kind of central record keeping and how does it measure "being trans" and how does it allow for follow up considering the potentially very wide spectrum of what it can mean to be transitioned ? And considering the low bar in some places for being legally recognised as the opposite sex how accurate are these centralised figures in terms of total number and the number of detransistioners ?

She says the number of detransitioned people is growing and they will become impossible to ignore.

Of course it will. Detransition rates are still at a couple of percent. Transition is one of the most stressful things you can do in your life and not everyone makes it through.

But more people considering transition, coupled with a low detransition rate, will of course increase the number of people who have detransitioned.

The reasons are varied - some choose to do so for their families, employment or other external factors. For some transition might not have been the right choice (e.g. the infamous Walt Heyer). And for others the sheer mental stress is too much.

The first and last reason are mostly due to society, not the trans person. The middle one (I don't have any stats on which is most likely as the rates are quite low) is the one we need to improve however.

Like I've always said, transition should be the last choice for anyone who is GNC, not the first.

Babies I've seen that, too - the experience of a young woman who has gone through years of drugs, binders, surgery and mental anguish is deemed as less valid than a guy who occasionally wears eyeliner and speaks in a breathy voice when he goes into a "female shift". One is derided as "never really trans" and one is deemed as an Oppressed Genderfluid. No prizes for guessing which is which.

Unfortunately the detransitioners ARE easy to ignore as many are young women, a section of society frequently ignored.

Plus any detransitioner is deemed a fake transgender person, someone who was never really trans to start off with (not that there is any criteria other than a feeling from what I read!) An old fashioned 'no true scotsman' fallacy.

Cari Stella's story (in the video posted by AskBasil above) is well worth a watch. She is asking a lot of questions about what being trans means from the position of someone who transitioned very young and has now detransitioned. She says the number of detransitioned people is growing and they will become impossible to ignore.

A courageous young woman who was drowned in the kool-aid of transideology. Heartbreaking.

Prawn - that's the thing I find really disturbing. I have a child who has a number of issues compared to your average child, meaning that there are a number of support groups/networks/organisations that I'm a member of. Organisations take their tone from the top. Green has shown herself to be someone who makes highly questionable decisions. So much of this feels like justification to validate her own choices.

Yes, Cote, the strategies Mermaids have been using, both here and elsewhere, show them up for the shower of amateurs they really are.

Suzie Green took her son abroad for genital surgery when he was 16. How any parent can ignore that is beyond me.

I guess if your child is struggling, you will take what you need from the ideology, and disregard the rest.

Protection. It's human nature.

I just wish that the people who do that have a thought for others not in the exact same situation. I understand why they don't, but I wish they would.

Sounds like that to me too, Kropotkinator.

Whenever I hear this blue toys/pink toys shit I just thank fuck I grew up in the 70s/80s. My sis and I loved our Scalextrix set the best. We spent A LOT of time out roaming on our bikes, climbing trees with our male friends, helping our Dad fix stuff, playing with Mechano and Lego. In today's terms my Dad spent a couple of years trying to 'turn' us by introducing us to coding. As a teen, I was mad for science and sci-fi. Blow me if I didn't turn out to be a woman with kids. Today's conception of gender and play is so narrow, I probably have been identified as gender non-conforming (as opposed to being a bit fed up with all the pretty-pretty girl shit and actually being allowed to explore my own interests).

It's really sad. Strikes me that it's cognitive dissonance at the (emotional) investment they made into a possibly dodgy organisation. Sometimes it's easier to plough on repeating the doctrine than admit you might be wrong.

You can just see the executive "damage limitation" meeting that took place on Monday, where clearly some sort of "Let's bombast MumsNet" decision was taken. Yawn.

Nah, keep em coming I say, Cote. Let's see if any of them can explain why they are supporting they are continuing to support an emotionally abusive mother with misgendering her child.

Welcome to MN, Bonny.

Anyone else bored with the onslaught of Mermaids people?