DH is 'glad' of verdict

But even if they don't listen to women, men also think this was rape and DH was saying he would ask directly if these men would act exactly the same i.e. Enter a hotel room in the dark and put their dick inside a woman (that they have never met but know to be drunk) without speaking one word to her, rape have sex with her and then just leave without speaking another word to her. When asked this question bluntly and crudely they do seem to realise this isn't acceptable behaviour. Perhaps it's a question you could ask your DH, if you can bring yourself to discuss it with him again. Would he actually do the very same? If not, why not? If he would, well there you go. You know where you stand.

I think this is a really good point. i honestly think a lot of people still dont really understand what Evans actually did that night, or just haven't given it that much thought. They think it was just a case of 'she went back with a couple of footballers and then couldn't remember it the next day'. There was a lot of 'this sort of thing happens every weekend up and down the country and no one bats an eyelid'. But what Evans did really wasn't just a 'one night stand' he didn't speak to her before, during or after penetrating a woman he had never met before FFS, who in their right mind can think that is just 'boys will be boys behaviour'?

*respect

Sorry for typos, am being driven in the car

The thing is, to some men the question "what it were your female relative" does not work

They see some women as fair game. As somehow other and not deserving of the same reset they give to their own women. An angel/whore division if you like.

There is something fundamentally wrong with men (and women) who classify other human beings like this and no amount of trying to appeal to their emotional intelligence is going to get the result you hope for because there is something missing there

PS I do realise there is more to this case than just entering the hotel room in the dark and having sex with a stranger etc (personally I feel this case is actually more about power and control than actual sex) and there are lots of other issues - like attempting to bribe witnesses for one! - but the direct question of whether they could act like this themselves, focuses the male mind. Or if someone did exactly this (god forbid) to you, or his daughter, would your DH think it was acceptable?

Hex I'm sorry, I can imagine that this must be making you feel a bit beaten down and possibly a bit fearful for the future.

DH and I were discussing this yesterday as he was saying he was shocked by the amount of men in his workplace who share the views of your DH. DH was saying men like this probably aren't going to have their minds changed by women (as they clearly think so little of them), so there is a real duty on men who disagree with this verdict to speak out in an attempt to make these "hurrah justice has been served" men realise how wrong they are.

(By the way, as a feminist it pisses me off that DH is basically saying male opinions carry more weight than women, but with men like your DH they probably do unfortunately)

DH has just started a new job so the very last thing he wants to do is get into arguments with colleagues but being married to a rape survivor he can't listen to men basically condoning rape and not speak up. We were discussing how best to make these men realise. The fact that 1 in 4 women have been raped and the fact that these men like your DH presumably have female friends and relatives numbering more than 4, therefore the chances are they know rape survivors in their immediate circle (which fact alone seems to surprise them ) so they should be listening to what women are saying and take it on board. But even if they don't listen to women, men also think this was rape and DH was saying he would ask directly if these men would act exactly the same i.e. Enter a hotel room in the dark and put their dick inside a woman (that they have never met but know to be drunk) without speaking one word to her, rape have sex with her and then just leave without speaking another word to her. When asked this question bluntly and crudely they do seem to realise this isn't acceptable behaviour. Perhaps it's a question you could ask your DH, if you can bring yourself to discuss it with him again. Would he actually do the very same? If not, why not? If he would, well there you go. You know where you stand.

Depending on how you feel, you may well not even want to spend time and effort "educating" him, as the fact that he requires educating is a problem in itself. I can imagine if there are issues already in your relationship this may well feel like the final nail in the coffin.

For me, and it was a number of years ago, when I had a different nn on here - I recognised my xH was using the kind of coercion to have sex which implies that he was entitled to it. He had the whole repertoire. Then it got to well, I will just have sex with you when you are asleep.

He said later it had been a joke, but there was no way back, really.

I am really sorry, hex, I think the way you feel is correct

Yes, it's a crashing doom, as AF says. So sorry. You cannot fix this and he probably is speaking to someone who is agreeing with him and is willing.

Sorry. But my ex, whilst in the last months of our marriage, told me a rape joke he thought was very funny as did someone else who was just as intelligent as him, despite me asking him not to and him blocking my exit. I was appalled at the joke, but some months later he left me for her as she was my intellectual superior. I have decided that you really can't argue with stupid, and good luck to them!

This would be a deal breaker for me, I could not share my life with someone who has so little respect for half the population. To be honest I would kick him to the kerb for smirking.

Hex I am sorry that your H has shown you what he is in such a cruel way

I get the feeling this isn't the first time, but this time you are struggling harder to square away the fact you are married to a man like this

I would feel a sense of crashing doom for my marriage in this situation.

"She woke up alone, having pissed the bed, her handbag missing and no memory of what had happened. She contacted the police about her handbag and mentioned a concern that she might have been spiked. She remembered everything up until being in the kebab shop and knew she had not had that much to drink compared to her typical drinking on a night out (she had only been out for a fairly short time after finishing work)."......

He announced this morning that he is happy and glad that justice has been served and will not listen to reason.We have 3 daughters.'

On the other hand, if you don't have any sons, at least there's a good chance he won't be able to push his disgusting opinions on the next generations.

Though it is sad that he doesn't love your DDs.

I'm an adult and it still makes me sad when my father takes a rapist's side in cases where it is blatantly obvious that the rapist is guilty.

SomeonesRealName: If someone says disgusting things to bully me, I treat it as if he really means those things. In the end, it makes no difference as he's a disgusting person for bullying in the first place.

Hmm my XH would have deliberately taken the same position for the express purpose of bullying me.

Reading back it does sound like "war on women" that your dh's camp has a war prisoner and by chanting her name it's akin to torturing her. In public. And he thinks this is a good thing.

Sounds incredibly awful OP. Whenever it's talked about with me and my buddies/family/colleagues it doesn't often get beyond "twat" and other short words. If any man offered themselves as a CE cheerleader I wouldn't want to know him.

Even IF he is just being 'controversial' it's the wrong item to do that over.

Part of the reason I am now living apart from my husband is because he refused to talk with me about these issues. He believed I hated men and that included him. I got the impression that he didn't agree with me on basics like consent and that alongside other abuse was enough for me to leave. Avoiding the subject is as bad as agreeing with the verdict as it makes it clear they don't want to disagree with you. It gives their hand away. At least you have a clear understanding.

Relieved to hear that hex

Look after yourself Hex. [flowers ]

What sort of man wants to have sex with a woman in these circumstances
one who regards women as mere pieces of meat to be used for male sexual gratification
there is also the element of men bonding with each other during the exploitation of women's bodies, affirming their masculinity together

Hex I'm sorry if this oversteps a mark but has he ever acted in a way towards you that suggests he feels he has a right to have sex when he wants to regardless if you do?

Your son is quite right, Lass

To contrast, my DH has simply deleted anyone on his social media who posted in favour of Evans. One of them he had been friendly with for years. He was appalled at Evans' behaviour over the last few years, has had many discussions with male friends where he has pointed out how very few women report and this has shaken his belief in a country he really believed in.

OP I'm really sorry to hear this and frankly rather alarmed that you say it's set off alarms about other things

I only have two straight male friends, I've never been a man's woman because of the underbelly of misogyny you so often find. They were pleased when he was put away and horrified now. One of them is particularly anti football, I've never paid much attention to it but I'm beginning to see why he feels this way.

If your partner isn't even prepared to look at the facts, I particularly wonder if he even knows the woman didn't bring charges - then I'm afraid it's time to have a serious think in what you'll tolerate and how you want your dds raised.

My son commented after the first trial that even if he hadn't been found guilty then he would still be scum. I haven't spoken to him about this one. My husband is astonished at the verdict.