Ched Evans verdict

Battery in porn terms it's called a "cream pie" but I'm surprised non porn stars would do that. Mcdonald said he left room cos he wasn't into all that (whatever all that is) yet evans said they'd had threesomes in the past. My guess is if mcdonald was as coy as he made out (getting dressed in the bathroom) he would not be turned on by Evans tasting his sperm. And why get dressed in bathroom when allegedly both Evans and the victim had already seen him naked? For a sleazy scumbag he was surprisingly modest.

"men performing oral sex on a woman who has had sex with an/many other men is a common theme in porn"

CEs whole account was like a porn script................

Lass men performing oral sex on a woman who has had sex with an/many other men is a common theme in porn, as is a woman performing oral sex on a man who has penetrated multiple women - no idea if they actually do it in that order or if the tape is cut about, but I'm inclined to think it's done pretty much in order and the performers just have to accept it. I think because it's common in porn it's seen as an ok thing to do whereas maybe without that influence people might think it a bit yuck.

I missed what expression she allegedly used to ask for oral so cant comment on that.

Lass the oral sex is an odd one and I wish prosecution had grilled him on it. The term she supposedly used is what I'd call an old school term but still widely used.

It is not wrong that in certain circumstances victims are compelled to give evidence.

Re the assertion she asked for oral sex, I find it wholly implausible that a man would perform cunnilingus on a woman he knew nothing about and whose vulva must have had another man's sperm in/on it.

Is the term she is supposed to have used an expression which is generally and widely used by women?( I don't know, I hate cunnilingus and have no expression to ask for it)

Fannycabbage There is a gofundme page for the complainant where you can leave a message of support.

www.gofundme.com/help-ched-evans-complainant-2uj5pv8?rcid=a9dd64fa93e311e6b6a4bc764e04c5a7

Woman I mean if a victim says she wants to drop her support for the prosecution, police will try to persuade her to continue rather than compell her.

Clever persuasion? What do you mean?

That wasn't my experience. They straight up asked me.

The first question the police asked me when they told me my rapist had been caught was whether I was still willing to testify in court.

If I hadn't been, that would have affected the decision regarding whether to charge him. He may still have been charged, but my unwillingness would have been a risk in terms of likelihood of conviction.

Victims can be compelled to testify but don't like doing it as the defence can use the victims reluctance to claim she was making it up. She can be regarded as a hostile witness and the case likely to collapse. police are more likely to use clever persuasion to get the witness to give evidence.

When I say that it's wrong when women are compelled to testify - I think because of the particularly traumatic nature of rape trials, public policy shouldn't override the view of the victim. Giving evidence as a rape victim is harrowing, and to force it on someone amounts to cruel and inhumane treatment in my book.

It's a separate debate though.

No, but it's extremely unlikely that they'd have proceeded with this trial if she'd been unwilling to testify. They would have known that the chance of conviction was very low if she didn't agree she'd been raped. Because there would be nothing to stop her saying as much in court in front of the jury.

It is very rare that women are compelled to testify. (It's wrong when they are, but that's a separate discussion)

Prosecutions can and do happen without a victim's co-operation. The idea "don't want to press charges" is not how it works. The CPS decide if any case goes ahead. There can be good reasons of public policy in proceeding with cases despite unwilling victims.

"she wouldn't have agreed to testify in two trials unless she agreed with the police that she'd been raped."

Just to say, looking at the CPS policy, it does seem from a quick skim that prosecutions can start, and indeed proceed, without the victim reporting a rape, and that if the prosecutions proceeds without the victims wishes (as happens when victims change their minds), they can be compelled to give evidence in person in court, despite not wishing to proceed with the prosecution.

So, her agreement wasn't required either as to the initial prosecution, or to testifying.

She may not have gone to the police to 'report rape' but she thought she'd been spiked, she reported a sore vagina, and she was extremely distressed when she woke up (she went straight to her friend, who testified as to her distressed state). She will have put two and two together. She obviously knew that, despite being unable to remember it, something very bad had happened.

Just because she wasn't planning to report it, doesn't mean she doesn't think it was rape.

Regardless of whether she can remember the act, she wouldn't have agreed to testify in two trials unless she agreed with the police that she'd been raped.

Butter the speculation is based on evans' conflicting accounts on who said what between the three, the surreptitious way he entered and exited the room, the likelihood of him performing oral sex on the victim after his mate penetrated her without a condom, the fact he "shushed" the guys at the window to be quiet. The victim said she didn't think she had drunk that much but woke up with a sore vAgina and such a bad head that she wondered if she had been spiked.
Her experience was in polar opposite to mine - the only similarity was a weak prosecution.
As I said, something doesn't feel right about evans behaviour. He did not act like a man having consensual sex with a willing woman.

Yes, FC, the world is getting smaller and worse for women again.

There seems to be an awful lot of speculation here which just adds to all the rumours going round - I've not read anything that suggests the girl didn't see him or look at him yet it's spread around on here and other threads like fact. Then all the comments about being spiked? There's no basis for this - pure guess work which in turn is plain scaremongering.

The girl herself said she wasn't that drunk, has no memory and didn't suggest she was raped at all.

I can't help feel that some peoples past experiences (awful ones at that) are causing them to try fit the situation into their preconceived image rather than seeing it for the evidence there is

Thanks, OlennaWimple and Queenoftheblues

It just makes me so cross that 13 years later, it doesn't seem like anything has improved around rape and sexual assault - it's too much of a LAD joke and banter and with all the recent comments from Donald Trump, it seems we're going backwards.

More education for girls and boys is needed around consent and better rehabilitation and if that fails complete chemical castration

FC so sorry to hear that x

FC

Late to this thread after having to give up all internet for a few days after the verdict. Some of the stuff from Twitter made me feel everything from anxiety to sickness to despair to anger and then some. The verdict is one thing - the language and the abuse the names and the championing of it all is another.
It made me so angry-infuriated-sad-furious to see so many people using the words slut slag whore slapped - even thinking about it now makes me feel so impotent yet full of words and speechless.
I had my drink spiked and was raped 13 years ago. It was horrific and terrifying, mainly because I couldn't remember much but had awful flashbacks. The police found him and arrested him but the CPS dropped the case as it was my word against his. I didn't tell anyone apart from my best friend for a long time. When I told my mum, she asked me not to talk about it with anyone - not even my dad. Whilst she understood it wasn't my fault, she knew there would be so many judgemental people.
It's horrific to think the defence were able to use past partners as evidence.
I hope that poor girl finds some closure somehow and is able to live her life as well as she can.
I would love to do something to help somehow - I hate the idea of this culture of demeaning women to get worse for my girls.
Sorry for long post!

Because he's a footballer and women can't resist them

Fela Whilst there is nothing funny about this that touch of gallows humour did make me smile

We are not obsessed with the footballer

We are obsessed with the court case and what it means for woman

We're discussing the implications of this case on our own personal safety. I feel less safe now than I did a week ago as a direct result of the verdict of this case and public response to it. My personal safety is kind of important to me, despite clearly having so little value to certain others. Forgive me for being so obsessed by it.