Ched Evans verdict

"And what if both her and the guy are drunk, they have sex and she later cant remember if she consents so regrets it"

Hmm this is what I experienced when I was younger.

I think careful and responsible drinking needs to be taught along with what consent means. The two have to go hand in hand.

Yes, that's already been answered. Also, she didn't accuse him of anything, he admitted it.

Now, tell us about this not in any way creepy man thing

Not saying rape is ever ok but surely some onus falls on the woman not to get so blind drunk that she can't remember anything. And what if both her and the guy are drunk, they have sex and she later cant remember if she consents so regrets it and accuses him of rape on grounds that she was too drunk? Seems like a dark path to go down to me... He would have done nothing wrong (they were both drunk and she willingly opened his legs for him) and yet he could go to jail...

Scallops I think I agree about the not drinking! It just seems too dangerous to allow such young adults to get themselves so drunk that they cannot give or get consent. I have mixed up thoughts about it all, especially when I think back through my own sexual history.

Oh come now Scallops, that would just be terribly unreasonable.

Women must be the ones to change themselves, in order to stop criminals from harming them.

Maybe women should just lock themselves into cupboards alone after the age of... well, birth I suppose?

Winchester lemme guess, any woman who has enjoyed a drunken one night stand basically deserves to be raped by any man who cons his way into the bedroom she's sleeping in and she should have zero recourse in law?

Manaka, I don't know. I've often wondered what woukd happen in such a case, presumably if both parties recall nothing then no case can happen?

Well you can't. But the onus is on a man not to penetrate a woman who is that drunk, no matter how drunk he is. Because penetrative with penis is what rape is all about in english law.

Perhaps we do really need to tell men to stop drinking.

I've made the mistake of reading the DM version and some of the comments. It's terminally depressing.

So how can you give or get consent when you're in that state?

Mamaka, in my opinion, yes, equally important.

If he gave even the tiniest toss about "being unfaithful" he wouldn't have booked the hotel room in the first place.

He only stopped when he realised he was being unfaithful. He thinks that makes him a good person.

I feel so sorry for this young woman. The idea among men that it wasn't rape certainly isn't confined to a certain kind of man, a certain sort of Ched Evans wannabe, or a badly educated, badly brought up man. Well-educated professional men with families think the same thing (in my experience of talking about this case today).

Genuine question here, not a troll!
I have had a couple of nights, years ago, when I drank so much I couldn't remember anything, but woke up naked next to a stranger. Horrible sickening feeling. The stranger also woke up looking shocked and asked me what my name was.

Isn't it just as important for me to get his consent as it is for him to get mine? If we are both stumbling around blind drunk and end up somehow having sex, is that consensual on either side?

Didn't we used to get a better class of troll?

Well done women for trying to educate him, I fear you won't have been successful.

Clona I believe you. Take really good care of yourself.

The scary thing is, it's not just men who are baying for her blood. There are a lot of women on social media making awful comments about her too.

What hope do we have for change when there are so many women out there who cannot see that it's not okay for a man to sneak into a hotel room and then start having intercourse with someone whom he'd never even met or spoken to before?

And why is it that people are calling the woman a slag, slut etc. When CE is the one who entered the hotel room without her consent, stuck his penis inside her without a word, and then left through the fire escape, all whilst he had a girlfriend at home waiting for him? Why is it okay for men to sleep around, but when a woman does it she is branded a slapper? So so wrong. I thought we were supposed to be moving forward as a society.

I agree totally with Badabing. It is an egregious miscarriage that the rules were changed in this case to allow her previous sexual history to be used as evidence.

Gloriawasome: first page It was horrible reading all the comments about the girls previous relationships. She might have enjoyed certain things. Doesn't mean she wasn't raped.

Yes. In my office today the women were saying : it seems like she was raped three times then. The men were all 'yeah but'

Yy badabing - when people say that they are concerned that changes to the rules and processes for hearing a rape case mean that men will be the victim of false accusations, they actually mean that being accused of being a rapist is worse than being a victim of rape and not being able to get justice.

But but but it's the feelings of men that matter. We should have 'consideration' for Evans despite the fact he showed zero consideration to a 19 yr old woman before sticking his dick in her. Of course we should worry about all those men about to assault very drunk women because they want to get their end away.

I tell you what, women don't tend to worry that their daughters are going to be accidentally raping/sexually assaulting very drunk, semi conscious men. I wonder why that is?

It is a matter of concern for any man that he could have his like ruined so easily by a false rape conviction.

It is more than 'a matter of concern' for any woman that she could so easily have her life ruined by being raped.

And not be believed, and have her past lovers testify about her sexual habits, and have people all over the country bully her over social media, and have to move and change her name to escape those bullies.

And all of those things when she never even made an accusation.

Now in the eyes of the law that man is not a rapist, but he has ruined that 19 year old woman's life just for a bit of 'boys will be boys' fun with his friends.

I still do not believe for a second that the girl in question at some point did not tell the police that she thought she had been raped

Well it doesn't matter what you believe because it is a FACT that she did not once accuse CE or CM of rape. At the very least please educate yourself on the basics of this case before spouting such bile.

I have mostly avoided social media today but the few comments I have come across from the general public has made for some harrowing reading.

Clona

I'm with the majority here as well. I have vomited twice today because it has made me so ill. It has brought back horrific memories of being raped. I was also gang raped by a group including a well known individual but I know that I can never come forward and report it. Who would believe?

Everything about this verdict makes me feel sick and makes me question our standing as a civilised and just nation. How I judged the U.S. for the Brock case and thought that at least here we see through the white male privilege bullshit but apparently not.
I do pity his girlfriend though, how fucked up must her childhood have been with a rapist-sympathising father, those attitudes must have been pretty clear throughout her upbringing. Who's dad, upon hearing his daughter's boyfriend ADMIT publicly that, regardless of whether it was rape or not, he cheated on her in such a depraved fashion, doesn't tell her to get rid and forget about him. Instead he bank rolled his defence.
And for those saying that she's with him for the money (might not be this thread, I've been reading them all) her family is wealthier than him by a long way and I can't believe someone would chase fame that hard that they'd back a rapist.