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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ched Evans verdict

989 replies

FreshwaterSelkie · 14/10/2016 16:12

to continue the discussion as the previous thread closed.

OP posts:
DeleteOrDecay · 16/10/2016 21:26

So basically that poor girl has been through the ringer twice because he kept throwing money at it until the 'problem' went away.

Seems like it is possible to buy 'justice' if you have the money.

CharlieSierra · 16/10/2016 21:24

That is so stupid isn't it, so similar it cannot be reasonably explained as coincidence, but on the other hand not unusual....Hmm

JenLindleyShitMom · 16/10/2016 21:18

"The behaviour does not have to be unusual or bizarre; it has to be sufficiently similar that it cannot be explained reasonably as a coincidence"

This seems so ridiculous. There are so many things that are very common during sex that could also happen during a rape. For example scratching or biting. Things I've done during consensual sex that are entirely plausible during a rape. Or orgasm. Lots of women orgasm during a rape. Probably loads of other things I can't think of just now too.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 16/10/2016 21:13

. Basically Ched exploited a loophole

Thats what you pay the big bucks for Sad

Felascloak · 16/10/2016 21:09

Yes quite merry That's why I called it a loophole. CE lawyers argued that similar didn't have to mean unusual and therefore got a retrial for a crime where the odds are hugely stacked in the defendants favour.
And in the meantime basically showed how meaningless that clause in the law actually is.
I hope that this triggers a tightening of the law, too late for the victim here though.

merrymouse · 16/10/2016 21:04

Looking at the judgement, the Crown did argue that the witnesses could have been fed the information, but this wasn't enough to convince the Appeal judges not to allow a retrial - basically they refer the question to the jury.

"Nevertheless, we have borne very much in mind the fact that there may be material available to the Crown that has the potential to undermine the witnesses' credibility at a hearing where their evidence can be thoroughly and rigorously tested in a way that was not possible before us. The Crown has a number of potentially valid points to make. There is the possibility that the witnesses may be more partial than they cared to admit and there is the obvious point that their current accounts did not come to light until the appellant had exhausted the appeals process."

The Crown also argued that the sexual behaviour was pretty standard. However:

"The flaw in Ms Law's argument, as we see it, is that she focussed on there being nothing 'unusual' about X's alleged behaviour. The behaviour does not have to be unusual or bizarre; it has to be sufficiently similar that it cannot be explained reasonably as a coincidence".

It just seems so flimsy, given the potential for the information to be fed to the witnesses, and, yes, the pretty common nature of the behaviour. However, apparently it was enough to convince the jury of reasonable doubt.

What isn't clear is why this case is 'exceptional' and why a similar tactic couldn't be used by another defendant. The main exceptional thing about this case seems to be the amount of resources the defendent had at their disposal to keep going until they found anything to advance their case.

Marbleheadjohnson · 16/10/2016 20:09

It glosses over the fact the information was already in the public domain. And one of the guys was so keen on giving a statement because he thought she was lying and motivated by greeed, and he worried about getting accused of rape too.

Felascloak · 16/10/2016 20:06

That judgement is terrible. Basically Ched exploited a loophole. Angry

EmmaMacGill · 16/10/2016 20:04

Fucked up is right, the fiancé has obviously been set a low bar by her father and is continuing her low expectations with CE and will probably ingrain it into their son too.
Is a shame it's not just (some) men who have such misogynistic attitudes

HillaryFTW · 16/10/2016 19:34

Thanks, Andrew.

"apparently thinking of suing Brabners, his former solicitors."

Lass, what might be his grounds for is?

Andrewofgg · 16/10/2016 19:00

Here is the full judgment of the Court of Appeal quashing the original conviction:

www.crimeline.info/uploads/cases/2016/chedevansappealx.pdf

flippinada · 16/10/2016 17:54

Fucked up is a good description.

flippinada · 16/10/2016 17:49

"But it's not just infidelity - it's all the actions surrounding what he did, the complete lack of respect for the victim - pretty much treating her like a piece of meat - the men filming outside the window - even details like completely abandoning the victim. You can take away the rape conviction and he is still somebody who did something that was completely despicable"

Thank you merrymouse, that's it exactly. A decent human being just wouldn't have behaved like CE and his friends.

Marbleheadjohnson · 16/10/2016 17:48

Alex Brooker summed up the family's actions perfectly at the end of The Last Leg on Friday: "it's fucked up!"

DeleteOrDecay · 16/10/2016 17:46

The way Massey's father has backed CE and put so much money into getting him acquitted is bizarre.

When talking about this with dp I asked him how he would feel if any future partners of our own dd's did what CE had done and he said rape or no rape he wouldn't want him to have anything more to do with our girls and the rest of our family and there there would be zero chance of him helping him get the result he wanted in court. A pretty normal reaction for most fathers/parents, I'd like to think anyway.

Marbleheadjohnson · 16/10/2016 17:44

I don't think she cares much about his contempt for women. Hers appears at least the same level. I could not go out with a misogynist but there is no accounting for taste.

BeyondReasonablyDoubts · 16/10/2016 17:43

I'd suggest that could be money based, as she's a wag with a rich daddy. She views herself as 'above' the women Chedwyn finds on a night out.

Pure speculation, but

Batteriesallgone · 16/10/2016 17:41

*was 19. Obviously not anymore!

Batteriesallgone · 16/10/2016 17:40

Because the only thing that is a pattern of, is a pattern of her being taken advantage of by predatory males

Exactly. She's nineteen FFS. Nineteen. Barely an adult and yet she's being used and abused like this by men. But apparently that's not evidence of vulnerability it's evidence of easy consent. Ridiculous.

flippinada · 16/10/2016 17:38

*which, not such

merrymouse · 16/10/2016 17:38

I can only assume, as hard as you find it to understand, that she believed he was innocent of the charge and loved him enough to forgive the infidelity.

But it's not just infidelity - it's all the actions surrounding what he did, the complete lack of respect for the victim - pretty much treating her like a piece of meat - the men filming outside the window - even details like completely abandoning the victim. You can take away the rape conviction and he is still somebody who did something that was completely despicable - and that's before even thinking about what was going on with the friend who assaulted the woman earlier in the evening.

And then, if this was just another night out with the lads, and Ched Evans tells the police that footballers can sleep with anyone, how many more times has this happened?

Batteriesallgone · 16/10/2016 17:35

If you're too drunk to remember it the next day - I'm going to come out with it and say to my mind that's rape.

It's hardly a shining example of consent.

flippinada · 16/10/2016 17:35

It's not just about forgiving infidelity though. It's not like he had a one night stand or an affair and got found out. He's been found not guilty (such doesn't mean innocent) but by his own account he behaved in a completely despicable way.

Maybe she does love him - but that doesn't account for why her father defended him so enthusiastically either, does it?

DeleteOrDecay · 16/10/2016 17:35

Exactly Beyond. Exceptional circumstances my arse. Her sexual history should never have been allowed to be used as evidence in court.

It's a total disgrace and I'm glad some of the main tabloid newspapers have picked up on it too.

Batteriesallgone · 16/10/2016 17:35

I can well understand claiming compensation if you want to set yourself up for a life of raping with impunity because women know they haven't got a cat in hells chance against you.

Just saying.