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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Yes, it is another trans thread - attempted murderer Lauren Jeska

406 replies

PippaFawcett · 22/09/2016 19:40

Absolutely no mention AT ALL in the BBC coverage that celebrated 'female' fell runner Lauren Jeska's reason for attempting to murder an athletic official is because she was discovered to be transgender and could have lost her titles, because obviously the women competing against her were at an unfair disadvantage.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-37439875

I was baffled at Jeska's motivation until I read the DM's version: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801806/Former-fell-running-champion-Lauren-Jeska-admits-attempted-murder-former-rugby-player-Ralph-Knibbs.html#comments

Usual disclaimer that I have no issue with transgender people but this complete denial of the facts of biology does no-one any favours. And I presume this crime will go down as being perpetrated by a woman?

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TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 15/03/2017 13:34

I also don't understand why you're talking as if what Jeska did was a suicide attempt when it wasn't. It was attempted murder.
Nothing to lose by taking another person with her - well no, not if you are completely self centred and the other person and their loved ones don't hold any weight for you whatever.
Please don't attempt to give Jeska or anyone else a free pass for violence for being trans.

Datun · 15/03/2017 13:33

*nearly killed.

Datun · 15/03/2017 13:33

subjected to the indignity of further tests because someone, somewhere, wanted to cash in on her transsexuality.

She wasn't going to have further tests, she hadn't complied with the previous tests. She had won awards without complying with drug testing. The man she killed said she had to comply or she wasn't entitled to the awards. I'm not sure how this is 'cashing in' on anything.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 15/03/2017 13:30

Why is this about someone else wanting to cash in when the fact was Jeska had failed to give the necessary blood samples? Surely if Jeska's testosterone levels were so low there would be no reason to refuse.
Besides, fairness in sport isn't solely about testosterone at the time of competing: do you really not think that having a male bone structure, with the longer legs of a biological man, would be an advantage in fell running?!

AssassinatedBeauty · 15/03/2017 13:30

Ralph Knibbs nearly died, and was incredibly brave to fight off his attacker. The other people who rushed to help him were equally brave and saved his life. He has permanent life altering injuries as a result of Lauren Jeska's actions. There is no justification for those actions whatsoever. Do you have any sympathy or concern for the victim here?

As far as I'm aware, there was an issue over Jeska not providing samples, and the issue came to a head because there was the possibility of international selection. I think the female competitors who lost out to Jeska should at least be able to know if Jeska's testosterone levels were within the allowed limits.

RakingUpBadMemories · 15/03/2017 13:25

We don't know whether she felt her life was not worth living.

We do know that she felt the official's life was not worth living.

We can't know whether her testosterone levels were low enough to be acceptable.

We do know that she had refused testing.

I'd go for something a bit stronger than 'not approving' of what she did. How about 'finding it appalling'?

StrangeAdventure · 15/03/2017 13:18

Surely the material fact is that someone who had devoted her life to her sport, and who had been accepted by the governing body as eligible to compete, was about to be retrospectively stripped of her titles and subjected to the indignity of further tests because someone, somewhere, wanted to cash in on her transsexuality.
I don't approve of what she did, but I can well understand that she must have been desperately, desperately unhappy quite possibly suicidal (several papers mention that she had been seeking psychiatric help) so in that state she may have felt that her life was not worth living and that there was nothing to be lost by taking the person she held responsible with her.
In case you hadn't guessed, I am transsexual. I can tell you (from experience) that pre-transition life as a transsexual is utterly miserable. Post-transition, it improves beyond all recognition, in spite of the discrimination and abuse whipped up by ill-informed and deliberately malicious articles in the likes of the Daily Mail.
So far as athletics is concerned (I'm not an athlete, BTW) I can tell you that my testosterone level is lower than that of non-trans women, and that if I was a non-trans woman, they would probably be prescribing testosterone supplements to get me up into the normal female range. And since I have been on HRT, my muscle mass has dropped significantly: I am at least 15kg lighter than I was, and I am now no stronger than my non-trans female colleagues at work. Other trans-women that I know have experienced exactly the same thing. The lack of testosterone also reduces our aggression. You cannot believe how nice it is (for us, and for other people) not to be angry all the time!
But it is upsetting how much deliberate disinformation is put out there by the likes of the Daily Mail in order to mislead their readers.

london333 · 25/09/2016 19:52

For what it's worth I submitted a complaint to the Guardian re their lack of coverage of the real reasons behind the stabbing - their response was that the reporter had no idea as the transgender issues were not mentioned in court!
I'm not sure that this reporter has much of a future in investigative journalism if they didn't spot this! I also note that the online report has to date NOT been updated (no surprise there then).

Xenophile · 23/09/2016 14:41

My DS is really pissed off about it if that helps. He has enough problems coping with how shit the world is to him without "autistic people will premeditatedly murder people for no apprentice good reason" being added to the stigma mix.

BungoWomble · 23/09/2016 11:35

I see it's also been pointed out in the other thread that Jeska's possible autism is being taken into consideration as mitigation - but not Jeska's biological sex? That means disabled people are now liable to be chucked under the bus rather than deal with one individual's problems too as well as women. I wonder what autistic males think about that?

BungoWomble · 23/09/2016 11:10

So this is a person born male, constantly being described as 'she' in the media, running in women's sports? Are 'they' - struggling with language here - still male-bodied?

This is all getting so bloody ridiculous. Time to remember that language is supposed to describe the real world in order to communicate facts about it, not obfuscate and lie.

WellyWanga · 23/09/2016 09:19

And

www.transmediawatch.org

WellyWanga · 23/09/2016 09:17

Yes BBC and other media are working with these organisation

www.onroadmedia.org.uk/work/working-with-the-transgender-community/

PippaFawcett · 23/09/2016 07:26

Facts don't seem to matter anymore, very dangerous.

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Xenophile · 22/09/2016 22:21

Some news outlets appear to be trying to blame this person's as yet undiagnosed autism for the fact that they took three kitchen knives to kill the person who was investigating whether the fact that they were male bodied gave them an unfair advantage.

Such utter ablist shite.

FreshwaterSelkie · 22/09/2016 21:11

oh dear, it's not my night for getting links right, thanks for the updated one.

PippaFawcett · 22/09/2016 21:06

The Telegraph link didn't work for me, here is another one: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/22/fell-runner-lauren-jeska-admits-attempted-knife-murder-of-britis/

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FreshwaterSelkie · 22/09/2016 21:05

bugger! wrong thread. meant to post on the aibu one. please ignore comment on reporting restrictions which doesn't apply here

PippaFawcett · 22/09/2016 21:05

She is transgender, it is a fact. There is no contempt of court issue with that at all.

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FreshwaterSelkie · 22/09/2016 21:04

the telegraph doesn't seem to be constrained by the reporting restrictions alleged earlier in the thread... full marks to them for actually explaining the crime.

PippaFawcett · 22/09/2016 21:04

I'm not sure I have beggared belief before. But I'm doing it now.

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JacquettaWoodville · 22/09/2016 20:58

This is how the BBC described Jeska's motivation:

" a statement, the Crown Prosecution Service said Jeska had been in a disagreement with athletics officials and it "escalated"."

I am sure if it had been a "disagreement" over e,g. A weight category that could've led to lost titles, more detail would have been given.

JacquettaWoodville · 22/09/2016 20:52

Thanks, OP. I read the BBC story but didn't understand there was a trans issue on this one.

PippaFawcett · 22/09/2016 20:50

So what? I searched feminism chat and didn't find a thread, so I posted. And actually my thread title makes it pretty clear what it is about unlike the one I linked to, so it was easy to ignore.

I even put trans in the title so people could ignore it if they want to pretend feminists who care about this issue all hate trans people.

This issue is important enough for multiple threads, much more important than the multiple GBBO ones.

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TrojanWhore · 22/09/2016 20:30

"There's already two threads about this...."

Fixed that for you.

Though multiple threads on one thing are a staple if MN