Yes, it is another trans thread - attempted murderer Lauren Jeska

"transwomen are at far greater risk of suffering from male vioence than non-trans women."
HOW DARE YOU! !
I hope that was a typo

"I'm afraid the idea that transsexuals "Just have a boob job" is pure fantasy."

No surgery is required at all. You just need to state you are a woman and job is done. Like Mary Poppins.

Yes these terrible deaths of transwomen.

There was one in the paper today.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4317526/Woman-admits-killing-drag-queen-silicone-injection.html

"A Florida woman has admitted to causing the death of a popular drag queen after she injected her with illegal silicone."

Woman you say? Oh: "Former friends claim that Roberts, who they say is also transgender, preyed on LGBT performers across Florida and Georgia"

A disproportionate number of stats used by transadvocates are wrong.

E.g.,

"how about that one in twelve risk for trans women being murdered by cis people. Or one in eight if you happen to be a trans woman of colour."

www.patheos.com/blogs/wwjtd/2012/05/murder-statistics-of-transgender-people/

"According to the Williams Institute, .3 of individuals identify as transgender. That’s 1 in 333 (ish).
According to the FBI, people living in the US have a lifetime murder risk of 1 in 240, in 1997. I don’t have current statistics for lifetime murder risk, but from 1997 to 2010, the homicide rates fell from a total of 18,208 (1997) to 14,748 (2010).
If 14,748 people were murdered in 2010, and 1 in 333 people in the general population are transgender, and transgender people are murdered disproportionately to other demographic groups, then we would expect greater than 1 in 333 murders to be murders of transgender people. So, greater than 44 people.*
According to the Transgender Day of Remembrance, 14 transgender people were murdered in the US in 2010"

So in fact transgender people are LESS likely to be murdered than other people.

Question for all the transadvocates - why do we need stuff like

europe.newsweek.com/transgender-murders-protect-trans-women-568558

"TRANSGENDER MURDER STATISTICS SHOW WHY ‘PROTECT TRANS WOMEN’ DAY IS NECESSARY

Of the seven murders already this year, six were of black women while the other was of a Native American. In the space of a few days last month, four trans women of color were murdered."

Why do we need lists of transgender murders on Wikipedia when there is no list of murdered women, or murdered sex workers? What is special about transgender murder victims that they should be listed separately?

Why do we need a day to protect transwomen and specifically black transwomen? What about the fact that black men are already much more likely to be murdered than white men?

OK. Last post from me on this subject, because I am clearly wasting my time trying to explain anything. But picklemepopcorn did say that I hadn't tried to engage with any of the points raised. The snag is that I do have other things to do with my life.

AssassinatedBeauty: UK Athletic already knew that she was trans, and knew that she had competed in the same sport as a man before her transition. The reason they asked for further blood tests was because of what the police described as "historical complaints" .

I didn't suggest "a wave of hate": I suggested that someone used the fact that Jeska was trans as an excuse to stir up trouble for her.

sash: I am sorry to hear that you are disabled. But no-one chooses to be transsexual, either. A key difference is that you are prevented from competing by your disability. Jeska was prevented by deliberate action of a human being.

uniquehornsonly: that is clearly a photograph of an adult amongst a group of children. It is irrelevant.

Datun: you are making an assumption (that she had reason to hide her testosterone levels) when you only need to check a few basic biological facts to see for yourself that a post-op transsexual (like Jeska) cannot produce testosterone.

Egosumquisum: Thank you: that is precisely what I was trying to say, very much more concisely put "Sadly some people are driven to commit such awful crimes when they become desperate" I agree that it is no excuse... but it is an explanation.

Ageingrunner: Jeska was not "a feminine man". She was a transsexual an internationally recognised medical condition that is as far removed from effeminacy as a brain tumour is from a headache. Many transsexuals spend decades trying to suppress their transsexualism by taking on highly "macho" roles but it often gets them in the end.

You say "According to the DM". In trans matters, the DM's track record is that almost nothing it publishes can be relied upon as fact.

You say "Men afraid of being laughed at and women scared of being killed" is a ridiculous misrepresentation. The number of transwomen who have committed any kind of violent crime is miniscule compared wit the number that have been the victims of violent crime.

HumphreyCobblers: I assume that someone thought they had something to gain by making "historical complaints" about events that happenned five years ago. I am absolutely certain that many of those who have been trying to whip up anti-trans feeling in the press most recently are doing it because they profit by doing so.

Of course I have sympathy for the victim. I think that is such an obvious sentiment that there is little point getting involved in a semantic competition to see who can express the most sympathy for the victim or abhorrence for the crime.

enoughisenough12: I agree that there is a trend, but I suggest that it is in the opposite direction to that which you suggest. This attempted murder has featured in several daily newspapers and the BBC. Violent attacks on transwomen are an almost daily occurrence (there was one in Blackpool today, for instance) but I have seen nothing about it in any of the mainstream press.

Barcoo: No, nor did I suggest that transwomen have been physically attacked by Greer/Bindel.Murray etc. And nor was it "male violence": Jeska is not male, and has not been for about 20 years.

Pencilsinspace: "explanations" and "excuses" are two different things.

CharlieSierra: Greer, Bindel and Murray have a long track record of attacking trans people. When it comes to physical violence, you are quite correct: transwomen are at far greater risk of suffering from male vioence than non-trans women.

SleepWhatSleep1: Mental Health issues can be caused by suppression of transsexuality, and are relieved (at least partly) by transitioning. That is the main point of transitioning: it is the only "cure" for the problem. And I completely agree that trans "status" is not an excuse for violence. But I (again) point out that the constant barrage of transphobia, increases the chances that some individuals will be driven to lash out against it.

BigDeskBob: I'm afraid that is simply wrong: Greer, Bindel, and Murray all generate significant income for themselves by attacking trans people at every opportunity.

MercyMyJewels: you are quite right: trans people are not unique, and "every murderer [etc] will have a horrific story to tell. That does not excuse their crime, but it may explain it.

CharlieSierra: The trouble is that most of what I see paraded as "the truth" about trans issues is actually fiction: it is pure hate speech dressed up with non-facts, or with important facts omitted.

stitchglitched: Jeska is not a biological male.

HmmmOkay: I said the lack of testosterone reduces our aggression: I didn't say it eliminates it. Or are you suggesting that no women have ever committed any kind of violence after years/decades of emotional abuse?

Wobblylegs5: Jeska wasn't "about to get found out" : UK athletic knew she was trans, and had taken the decision to allow her to compete in women's events.

re: "I think men think women like it": I think you have a point. But I think you have been fed a distorted idea of how transwomen dress (and think). Caitlyn Jenner is an unusual example, particularly that awful photo-shoot. In the early days of transition, many of us do make the same kinds of mistake as teenage girls do, with heavy make-up and provocative clothing, because we are going through the same learning process. But most of us grow out of it (as teenage girls do). Personally, I follow the female "dress code" at work, and usually wear joggers and tunic tops most of the rest of the time. If I'm going out to some kind of function, I get a bit more dressed up, but I don't go for short skirts or low-cut tops, and my highest heels are about 2-inches (most of the time I wear flats). I would say that I'm more typical than Caitlyn Jenner!

QueenLaBeefah: most transwomen that I know do not "find it difficult" to understand harrassment and male violence, and find it just as abhorrent as non-trans women do. The urge to transition has nothing to do with wanting "sunshine and lollipops"

QuentinSummers: suicide is not a logical reaction, nor is murder. What they have in common is that "something has snapped", and the person concerned cannot think logically.

Benlinusatemyhomework: I didn't say Knibbs said those things. And Jeska had complied with the regulations: UK Athletic knew she was trans, and had allowed her to compete. It was when they required additional tests that the situation deteriorated.

BetsyM00: We're not allowed to use the technical term cis-woman because it offends people. but when we're discussing the difference between trans and non-trans, we need something to distinguish between the two categories. Non-trans seemed to me like the least offensive option.

DickToPhone: The list you have given includes many of the individual procedures that are included in male-to-female and female-to-male GRS. MtoF GRS invariably includes orchiectomy (castration) as an essential precursor to genital reconstruction.

I'm afraid the idea that transsexuals "Just have a boob job" is pure fantasy.

Bambambini: no point responding to such blatant transphobia

Tartyflette: if you look at photos of top women athletes, you will see plenty of broad shoulders, distinct muscles, and (often) narrow hips. Many are quite tall, too -- Frances Houghton (UK rowing squad) for instance, is 6ft 4in tall and several of her team-mates are over 6ft. And women have "Adam's Apples" just as men do. Men's are generally bigger, but there is considerable overlap between the sexes, and it has no impact on sporting performance.

Datun: I'm not trying to "justify" violence. But I do wish you would get your facts right: violence towards transwomen is an everyday occurrence right here in the UK. Statistically, we suffer more violence that non-trans women. Transwomen do not commit violence at the same rate as men. Jeska was not "cheating".
I'm afraid if you have to resort to disinformation like this, it tends to suggest that you are desperate to "win" an argument rather than discuss the issues. Dare I suggest that that is a very male trait?

OK, that's me done. I have to go to work in the morning

I have been incredibly lucky: I have never personally experienced transphobic attacks or abuse to any significant extent -- unlike a friend of mine who was beaten up and left unconscious in the street outside her home, or the transwoman whose murder was recently videoed and posted on YouTube.

By your own logic, StrangeAdventure, isn't it possible that the people who murdered that transwoman may simply have "snapped" because of some trauma in their own lives? Wouldn't that make the murder "explicable"?

Datun,
I agree with you this crime was very premeditated.
However, whether she intended to kill or cause serious bodily harm is another factor but if a individual is carrying and concealing dangerous weapons ( knifes) and carries out a sustained and violent attack on another person then in my opinion their intention is to cause death .

"I don't agree that what Jeska did was "right" -- or even that it was sensible, or reasonable"

Gosh - EVEN sensible?!

We punish women who finally crack after years of beatings and abuse from male partners as murderers, yet a trans person who wasn't being bullied or abused gets a pass for attempted murder in your book because trans people often experience mental illness?

And whether she had testicles or not, the tests that she was being asked to comply with were for levels of testosterone.

I'm sure strange isn't violent or aggressive, but this incessant justification of violent acts using discrimination/oppression is wearing.

The statistics on violence towards transwomen comes mostly from Native Americans and sex workers in Brazil. The picture painted that they are constantly under attack is misleading.

Statistically, transpeople suffer less violence than women, not more.

Transwomen commit violence at exactly the same rate as other men.

The only thing that Jeska was 'retaliating' against was the exposure of her potentially cheating.

She attacked Knibbs in full view of witnesses, premeditatedly. Narcissistic male rage, pure and simple.

Well, they cerainly still have an adam's apple. In this photo of Jeska, I see only male musculature and bone structure.
Given that Jeska may well also be taller and with longer legs than many women, they would seem to have a clear advantage in this sport. And thus may well have robbed women of medals in the events Jeska participated in and won.

"Women do not commit violence against trans people, males do. Name the problem. It's Male Violence."

But our words are literally killing these fragile souls - apart from the recent non stop number of TW child abusers, rapists, torturers and murderers, axe wielders...Thank god they're not aggressive though.

And keep out of our sports - selfish, deluded cheating narcissists.

But some transwomen just have a boob job. There's no standard definition of gender reassignment surgery.

It certainly is not stated that Jeska has no testicles

Transwomen who have surgery would normally be offered orchidectomy and then some kind of vaginoplasty. So I would expect she had had her testicles removed.

The body can still make some testosterone though through other glands.

"According to the Guardian, she had Gender Reassignment Surgery in 2000. So she doesn't have testicles (which produce lots of Testosterone), nor does she have ovaries (which produce the lower levels of testosterone found in non-trans women.

So for the past 17 years, her body has been incapable of creating testosterone."

Did you graduate from Donald Duck's school of medicine???

The Guardian said:

"Following her gender reassignment surgery in 2000"

There's no standard definition for that.

"Sex reassignment surgeries include "complete hysterectomy, bilateral mastectomy, chest reconstruction or augmentation ... including breast prostheses if necessary, genital reconstruction (by various techniques which must be appropriate to each patient ...)... and certain facial plastic reconstruction.""

It certainly is not stated that Jeska has no testicles!

Queen I think men think women like it. I think that's why many mtt trans into a man's idea of a woman, lots if make up, sexualised clothing, like caitlin Jenner photo shoot, sexually available and demure all in one. I think men think women like being like this for men, so men think woolf whistling, ass grabbing, boob ogling is pleasing not threatening, & so many men seem to think women like sex work & that 'giving into' mens attension is sexually liberating for women. So they don't really realise, because they put rape & fgm in a different category & don't connect it to how they call us sluts or rate us with mates at the pub or how the male boss has his female assistant get the coffee & bend over etc

Not all men ofcourse, but alot of them, even those who think the respect women do this underneath. They get sucked in by stereotypes growing up too, but ofcourse they have the luxury of not challenging these because they (mostly) benefit from them.

So no I don't think men realise what women go through. & I don't think they really listen when we tell them. Hope that's not too garbled

That poor man. You do a job like be an officiate at athletics, somebody tries to do you in. Because due to the hormones, "they no longer feel that anger"

Well, well well.

Strange - Please don't say non-trans woman. Woman will do just fine thank you.

But Knibbs did not say "the only good tranny is a dead tranny" or "one less pervert" or anything of the kind. Jeska was being neither abused, attacked or discriminated against.

Had Jeska complied with the regulations, then there would have been no issue. They were either cheating or supremely arrogant and conceited, believing they were above the rules - either way, there is no question in my mind that this is a case of narcissistic rage as apposed to "poor downtrodden most oppressed of the oppressed" narrative you are implying. And in saying that, I don't mean that transfolk don't suffer abuse, discrimination and violence (mostly at the hands of misogynistic/homophobic men), because clearly they do, but that wasn't the case here.

picklemepopcorn yes, that's what it reminded me of too. And the family saying Jeska was mild mannered or similar, it's such a familiar pattern now after family annihilation by males.

When something snaps, and they kill themselves, no doubt there are some who see that as a good thing
In the case of Jeska we are talking about when something snaps and they attempt to kill someone else. Someone who is a decent principled man who's stood up for oppression in his own life. Someone who was just doing his job.
Suicide of trans people is irrelevant to this. I feel no more sorry for Jeska than all the other murderers with "extenuating circumstances".
Actually can't believe you are spouting such rubbish and think you are helping at all.

Why do trans women find it so difficult to understand the hatred that women experience from birth? Do they honestly think we waltz through life with no harassment and male violence and that it is all sunshine and lollipops? Such arrogance!

& just as a side note there's a study on the resources thread that links asd & trans but also says that it's grown out of by puberty. We are all on the spectrum in our family, I see one of my kids cling to sex role stereotypes & will leave well enough alone & let it settle as she grows. I was v much a tomboy as a child, hated the idea i would become a woman. But that changed at puberty. I still hated my woman's body & how I was treated bc of it, but I didn't think I shd jump ship

'Retailiate' what an earth was this person retailiating against? About to get found out? No one's fault but his own. That's not retaliating that's attempted murder, unprovoked

"The lack of testosterone also reduces our aggression. You cannot believe how nice it is (for us, and for other people) not to be angry all the time!"

Well, thank God Jeska wasn't aggressive eh?

We are supposed to feel sorry for someone who almost killed another person.

Nope.

Enough - victims of abuse do this, try to understand their abusers actions in order to predict & stay alive, if dependant on the abuser they often put aside their own experince to maintain the attachment, they rationalise & justify & self blame & extend compassion to the abuser rather than themselves.

Woman are more likely to be abused by those they are dependant on either as children or adults, & some I guess never wake up out of this behaviour.