Yes, it is another trans thread - attempted murderer Lauren Jeska

The lack of testosterone also reduces our aggression. You cannot believe how nice it is (for us, and for other people) not to be angry all the time!"
Really though? Because none of the men I know are angry all the time.DS isn't.DH isn't -or no more so than I am.Is this not just another stereotype,male =testosterone=angry and violent? (Possibly also =testosterone = " so not my fault if I'm angry")
Not saying no link at all (obviously) but I wonder how much is cultural rather than biological.

Oh yes, everyone knows that women regularly take huge knives in their bags to attack unsuspecting people in broad daylight in their offices

Women, men and transwomen have carried out premeditated attacks on other people in the past and sadly will do in the future- not sure why the word 'regularly' was needed.

Strange- found out by the general public, facing having titles challeged

And jeska is male, born male so biologicaly allways male. Fact. Living as woman or surgery or hormones doesnt change that.

The only non offensive term for non transwoman is wOman. To distinguish refer to yourself as anything that suits you that is different from us. We are females or woman. Dont use our terms.

You havnt responded to the ppints about bias. The 'sui' study that mermaids misreporting actually contained only 27 people who were trans, many I think had other pre existing mh conditions. That's hardly a repreventative study to rely on. And again as many studies of transwoman risk of violence focuses only on sex workers (and I'd be willing to bet female sex workers who do it for any length of time have a 100%rape rate) it's hardly proof that transwomen experience 'much more' violence that women- who the un states 1 in 3 expereince significant physical or sexual violence, as do many other sources- ass sexual harassment and again that's 100% of us. Like pp points out native aMericans are at much greater risk as well so doesn't prove your point.

It's hardly just Jenner though is it? Look at the profile of moSt TRA's and heavy make up, skimpy clothing etc, and/or the likes of amimee, which portrays women with baby voices, unrealistic body types, and a fair bit of sexualised child (girl) violence within fair bit of it also. All over fb/twitter etc of tra's who verbally attack women and say rape all terfs die all terfs etc. No doubt plenty of trabswomen get on with life without this glamorising of male violence, but TRA's seem to indulge in it.

StrangeAdventure I'm cringing for
you; I've never read a post that screams 'written by a male' more. I can't tell you're getting annoyed that us silly women aren't immediately falling to the floor and apologising for our mean views

"deliberately attacked someone in a provoked attack. She won't be the first person to do that - male, female or trans and she won't be the last. Men, women , trans people - all commit crimes and are all capable of violence."

Oh yes, everyone knows that women regularly take huge knives in their bags to attack unsuspecting people in broad daylight in their offices

I cannot take anyone seriously who states Jeska is not a biological male.

It shows zero understanding of the basic facts of life.

but when we're discussing the difference between trans and non-trans, we need something to distinguish between the two categories.

We have that already.
Trans women.
Women.
Both very clear easy to understand words. No need to add anything more.

But when we see those terms applied to Jenni Murray's thoughtful and factual article

Totally agree.

I don't believe that anyone here does dismiss violence and hate towards transwomen

Sometimes it seems people do. But that's probably a different thread.

and really not comparable given that there are more women than trans women so the stats would be very skewed

Given the millions of women out there and the few transwomen, it would be hard to make ANY statement on trans women and the violence they face / are responsible for in the UK.

I think that helps!

Another point though: I don't believe that anyone here does dismiss violence and hate towards transwomen. But when we see those terms applied to Jenni Murray's thoughtful and factual article ... we roll our eyes. And perhaps the continued equation of free speech with 'literal violence' has a 'boy who cried wolf' effect?

"Factually correct. The data is available. Don't have time to post the link but I can if necessary."

Please do as I believe it to not be correct, and really not comparable given that there are more women than trans women so the stats would be very skewed

corrected version

To those of you bringing in 'autogynephilia' - something that many people on here link to late transitioning people and transgender, doesn't Lauren fit the idea of a 'real transsexual' - a concept that's talked about on here a lot.

Transitioned in 2000. Had surgery - and the person talking about 'boob' jobs seems dismissive of someone who is most likely to have undergone orchidectomy and vaginoplasty.

Seems to have passed ok and been taken for a female by people she met.

So I'm not sure why some people are choosing to discuss autogynophilia?

It's also a bit depressing to see a real dismissal of the attacks, abuse and fear transwomen do face - it may or may not be more than your average women - but there's a real dismissal of that on here. Almost beliittling of the real fear and dangers that trans people face.

This is an awful crime committed by someone who transitioned 16 years ago, who had surgery, who was taken as female by people she met and who then deliberately attacked someone in an unprovoked attack.

She won't be the first person to do that - male, female or trans and she won't be the last. Men, women , trans people - all commit crimes and are all capable of violence.

I meant 'unprovoked' - I didn't see that when I posted. I'll see if I can withdraw and repost that.

What do you mean by 'provoked attack', Ego?

I nodded along to parts of your post until I saw that.

Doesn't the sentence speak for itself?

'Sentencing Jeska, Judge Simon Drew QC said her crime had been a 'cool, calculated attack' which had been 'wholly unprovoked'.

18 years plus an extended licence of 5 years when she is released is a tough tariff. Though she was remanded in September 2016 for psychiatric evaluation prior to sentencing; she has been jailed rather than detained at a hospital - so her mental condition doesn't seem to have cut much ice.

Thank you Iris.

I hate to bring bathrooms into it, because it isn't about bathrooms, but the blurring of the lines allows 'this' to happen:

www.thegetrealmom.com/blog/womensrestroom

'This' isn't the fault of transwomen, it's the fault of certain predatory, entitled men. But shutting down the debate and stopping women raising the issue of biology leaves women very vulnerable to incidents like the one in the article.

transwomen are at far greater risk of suffering from male vioence than non-trans women"

Factually correct. The data is available. Don't have time to post the link but I can if necessary.

Picklemepopcorn Your last post was one of the best that I have read on this side of the issue of identity. So thank you.

Strange Adventure

Excellent post.

I haven't been posting because of other things going on in my life.

I wish I had time and energy to engage. I also know the feeling of futility when trying to explain the facts.

My conclusion is that some posters do not want to understand or do know but want to carry on away.

Good luck those of you are trying to bring some balance into this thread.

Jenni Murray does not make a lot of money attacking trans people. She has been a respected journalist with her own radio show since God was a lad, and she did not achieve that by criticising trans people at every opportunity. Writing an article raising questions about the current self identification trend is not 'attacking' trans people.

The word for an adult female who is not a transwoman is 'woman'. At the time of the crime, Lauren was a transwoman. A DNA test would identify her as male. I am happy for her to pick her own pronouns and choose her own clothes. She cannot pick her own DNA.

And the sport thing, there are categories differentiated by sex because most men are stronger/faster/have more endurance than most women. There are outliers among women who's strength and build gives them an advantage against other women. Almost all transwomen would have that advantage.

I have always had empathy for transpeople who experience such distress about their condition. I hate our gendered society which drives people to feel they have to conform to certain roles.
Can you feel no empathy for the disadvantaged women who transwomen are displacing? It feels as though you are blaming us for your condition, and making us be the solution to it. Making us 'not trans women' so you can be 'women'. Can you not understand our pain? Our identity is being challenged. When your identity is challenged you consider that an attack. What about us?

"transwomen are at far greater risk of suffering from male vioence than non-trans women"

That statement is possibly the most ill researched spout if shite I've read in a long time. Your blinkered ignorance is astounding, also, no you don't need a new word to separate us.

I am a woman, you are a trans woman, there's the difference

Strange I admire you for responding in good faith but you have been very dismissive of the autogynephilia phenomenon. I encourage you to read more about it, particularly the reddit page where they fetishise teenage girls bodies while at the same time being attracted to them - there's a recent link in peak trans thread on gender critical. On phone now so i can't link. Also i wasn't referring to Jeska's action as male violence (in that point i made) - more the fact that transwomen always cite vulnerability to violence then connect it to "TERFs". That's ridiculous.

By the way the image of Gabrielle Ludwig is in a women's basketball team - not children. Gabrielle Ludwig is a 50 year old mttrans competing in sports with 18-20 year old women - apparently as one of them www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2012/12/04/college-basketball-transgender-player-gabrielle-ludwig-robert-ludwig-mission-college/1744703/

I'm aware that Jeska was a transsexual. What I was saying was that if he has comfortably been able to be a feminine man, this problem wouldn't have occurred because he wouldn't have been running in women's races.
I'm well aware that the DM is often not a reliable source, however it has the only mention I could find of whether or not Jeska was out as being tg.
And it's simply not true about tw being the victims of crime but never the perpetrators. Every day there are more and more cases of tw being involved in violent and sexual crime, just like men, because they retain a male pattern of criminality. This is well documented.

'Jeska is not a biological male.'

Yes they are. You can alter appearance, presentation, identity, pronouns. But you can't change scientific fact.