'Attractive'/'feminine' women treated differently in everyday social interactions?

"Attractive females may even be more likely stuck in customer-facing front of house type jobs with less chance of progression...."

In my mid 20s I was called back for a second interview for a front desk job at a homeless shelter. As soon as the Latino man on the Board met me he shook his head and I knew I wasn't getting the job. The interviewer explained to me that they'd had problems with male clients getting overly-attached to front desk staff.

Yep. Not just attractiveness but size, race, age, clothing......I dont fit western beauty ideals, I've always "seen" this different treatment and sort of expect it. In some cases it's really obvious, like in a bar, try ordering a pint in a pub as a 30something overweight Asian woman whilst standing next to your white, slim, younger looking DP
I'm surprised you've just noticed this OP.

I'm a lawyer in the US, and while I have certainly encountered discrimination and sexism in my 35-plus-year career, I haven't heard "lady lawyer" since about the early 90s.

Lass, I'm an in-house lawyer. My (male, non-lawyer) manager was asked only last week if "the lady lawyer" would give some advice about something. It happens!

yes absolutely this happens.

You see it as you age.

If I go around with my gorgeous daughter... oh, how it reminds me of what I'd forgotten! The smiles! The extra pleasantries! the general sense of wafting through the world as a highly acceptable person!

I hadn't realised the slow inexorable decline of that attention and ease of passage, as the years have passed.

There are benefits of being older and less visible - I just don't give a shit anymore!

I'm unattractive, my friends range from average to very attractive. The sliding scale in which they are treated by service staff is almost an exact sliding scale depending on their attractiveness. I've seen it up close and from afar for about 15 years. I would actually say the service I receive as an unattractive woman ranges from neutral to downright dismissive or rude.

StealthPolarBear

I can't say I have but it's an interesting one sone people (and I mean you and your friend in this case) just seem more sociable and friendly though and so might get treated differently on those grounds? I suppose I'm talking about body language

I agree Stealth but that's victim blaming according to Kristina.

Not sure about the legal profession but maybe Lass, you might have had clients who presume you are of a lesser qualified level and some surely ask for a male lawyer on the assumption they'll be more ruthless or better in some way?

No. Not ever and have never heard of it happening to any of the "lady lawyers" I know.

I'm finding it bizarre the only person I've ever come across using the expression "lady lawyer" is the poster here who is trying to tell me all about being a "lady lawyer".

" I thought it was obvious in the context ." lol probably just me being dozy...

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I was being ironic Ada . I thought it was obvious in the context .

" And apparently some other words such as doctor or lawyer are actually male, so that you have to say " lady doctor " to distinguish them from a real doctor . "

what utter nonsense

For Lass

www.thebalance.com/the-dos-and-don-ts-of-dressing-as-a-lady-lawyer-2164333

www.theladylawyerbrittany.com/p/about-me.html

hirealadylawyer.com/

www.google.co.uk/search?safe=active&client=safari&hl=en-gb&q=lady+lawyer+quotes&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjD4t7Nxp3PAhWkHsAKHQF8C7cQ1QIIYSgD&biw=1024&bih=729&dpr=2

I'm not stupid - I do understand that you wish to imply that you personally have never ever encountered any sexism in your whole life ( which may indeed be true ) , and that therefore anyone who has is either making it up or has caused it by being too sensitive or " unapproachable " .

But I am calling you out on your victim blaming attititute . Bigotry - racism, sexism, anti semitism, homophobia - is not caused by the victims over sensitivity / lack of sense of humour and it won't be fixed by them 'getting over themselves '.

We need to challenge these things because they are tiny examples of larger belief systems that oppress other people .

People who are paid to serve coffee shoudl provide the same service to both pretty and plain or overweight female customers. We need to call it out because it's part of the belief system that says women's only value is what they look like and men get to choose what's acceptable in terms of appearance .

ophelia my husband is a professor . When we have parcels delivered to the house for him, the courier always says " package for your husband " , even though the label says " professor JB Smith " , so they have no idea if the addressee is male or female .

Only ONCE in 10 years has one of them ever said " are you professor smith ? I have a parcel for you ".

Can't say I've heard of the term "lady doctor" or lawyer, but you do often get the situation where female doctor attends, then the patient asks "OK thanks nurse but can I see the doctor?"

Not sure about the legal profession but maybe Lass, you might have had clients who presume you are of a lesser qualified level and some surely ask for a male lawyer on the assumption they'll be more ruthless or better in some way?

I know what you mean about the default male presumption Kr1s in a sense of "Oh, Professor K.Smith is a woman oh didn't realise" because the assumption is advanced professionals are men while assistants are women. When you look around you this does seem to consistently be the reality, so females will be treated differently as a result.

Attractive females may even be more likely stuck in customer-facing front of house type jobs with less chance of progression, while those who are not so easy on the eye can use their actual brains and make decisions without being expected to simply be the smiling face.

Fast food joins typically give the good looking ones the till job and the not so much ones the cooking job but actually there's more chance of making more money when you're working out back with the food and stock taking etc.
On the other hand you're more likely to get the job in the first place if you're a looker.

Sosme people seem to think that the default sex is male . So a lawyer who happens to be a woman isn't a lawyer ( because that's a man obviously ) , she's a " lady lawyer "

I've been a "lady lawyer" for 35 years. Not once have I ever been referred to as a "lady lawyer" nor have I ever heard anyone use the expression " lady lawyer"

< hi fives toast >

Yeah, it's our own fault people are rude to use , it's because we are ugly and unapproachable . Same with BME people - there's no such thing as racism, they all just have a chip on their shoulder

Lass - have you never heard anyone say " lady doctor " or " female lawyer "? I'm suprised , I've often heard or read this .

Sosme people seem to think that the default sex is male . So a lawyer who happens to be a woman isn't a lawyer ( because that's a man obviously ) , she's a " lady lawyer " .

I can't work out if you genuinely have never heard of this ? Or if you have but don't see a problem with it ?

Has anyone seen 30 rock where Jon Hamm's character has everyone pretending he's great and bending over backwards for him because he's so handsome? There's definitely something in it.

I often wonder if this is why some women don't identify with feminism as attractive women have more of an illusion of equality. Being unattractive and unsociable, I have nothing to lose by admitting I'm a feminist.

its perhaps the 'heavy' even if not overweight prejudice as well
broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/women-can-suffer-workplace-fat-phobia-even-if-theyre-not-actually-overweight

And apparently some other words such as doctor or lawyer are actually male, so that you have to say " lady doctor " to distinguish them from a real doctor

Really? In what circumstances does one ever have to say "lady doctor" ?

What do you mean by "lawyer is actually male"?

So far as airline check in, some are friendly, some are neutral, some are sour-faced, I can't honestly say I've ever spotted it being switched on and off for men and women.

I think Vestal is right about the approachability/ apparent friendliness of the person has more to do with the reception than anything else.

You get more advantages in life if you are a big fit man. You don't get conned by mechanics, you don't get fobbed off by doctors and people listen to your opinion more agreeably. You would go through life never being called a bitch, slut, hormonal or bossy.

Being a pretty female may get some advantages but it's fairly limited.

Personally, being tremendously beautiful myself in the same way as Samantha Brick, I also find beauty can be intimidating to other women. (Half joke).

I sometimes wonder if that's partly down to Sir being more of a natural term than Ma'am or Madam...! It feels very odd, stifled and old fashioned calling a woman Ma'am or Madam - yet Sir sounds formal and polite

Isn't it funny how so many terms for men seem" natural " ( chairman , tradesman, policeman ) and those for women seem " odd". And apparently some other words such as doctor or lawyer are actually male, so that you have to say " lady doctor " to distinguish them from a real doctor .

I'm not sure why my being a woman stops them smiling or saying Good Morning. I guess that feels stifled and old fashioned. Much better just to say " yes? " .

if you are pretty it opens a lot of doors for you

Pretty sure there has been some research done on this which showed people are generally more friendly towards people who are considered attractive it applies to men also.