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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bright pink lipstick and vaginas

59 replies

FruitCider · 07/09/2016 19:36

I've got some internal conflict and not sure why, thought I would discuss it here and see what you all make of it?

I work in a challenging male environment, with men that have not had much female contact for a long time. My team is mostly made up of women, all of whom (apart from me) wear dresses instead of trousers and have heavily applied make up.

One in particular wears bright pink lip stick, because "it reminds men of vaginas". She reapplies it frequently in front of the men and carries it around in her pocket.

Part of me agrees that women should be able to dress how they want, when they want. But part of me is also confused about the women choosing to wear dresses and wearing heavy make up, particularly that lipstick with that intent.

It's really starting to bother me as I wear my hair short and put bare minimum make up on. I certainly don't want to make myself look even slightly sexual with this group of people that I work with.

I guess I just wanted to verbalise my feelings and get a feminist perspective on scenario/my feelings? Im feeling very conflicted!

OP posts:
Bitofacow · 07/09/2016 21:57

Last line doesn't make sense - please ignore

Pestilence13610 · 07/09/2016 21:57

The men do take it the wrong way, they imagine the lipstick is being put on for them. They develop fantasy relationships with the women. They voice their fantasy, woman get suspended for a year whilst investigation happens. Seen it happen several times, only to people (including men) who flaunt the rules a little too much.
Women working in male prisons have a great deal of power and a certain degree of risk. Rules are in place to stop the power being abused and to minimise the risk. The dress code is not punitive and similar to many other places of work.
Maud is your neighbour a rapist or murderer who has not had physical contact with a woman for 15 years? Genuine question I'm not being snarky.

Bitofacow · 07/09/2016 21:53

This reply has been deleted

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Maudlinmaud · 07/09/2016 21:48

Surely if these men are to be integrated back into society, they have to know how to behave appropriately. Seeing women wearing makeup is a normal everyday occurrence.

APlaceOnTheCouch · 07/09/2016 21:44

Imagine if one of the men took the heavy make up/dresses the wrong way
I find it concerning that in an 'imaginary future attack' your sympathy and empathy are with the aggressor. If I was your colleague, I would be very concerned about your views and your professionalism.

Maudlinmaud · 07/09/2016 21:37

So if I dare venture out tomorrow wearing my most vibrant pink lipstick and come across my vulnerable neighbour will I be "asking for it" if he attacks or assaults me?
Genuine question im not being snarky.

IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 07/09/2016 21:36

Anti women trolling. Trying to fire up the fems against themselves. V crudely.

1/10 - Must try better

HairyLittlePoet · 07/09/2016 21:27

Imagine if one of the men took the heavy make up/dresses the wrong way and attacked one of the team?

the men are vulnerable and may get the wrong impression about the team.

Are you aware you are posting in the feminism section of Mumsnet?

(And not in 1953?)

FruitCider · 07/09/2016 20:52

Ladamanera I'm not completely sure where my feelings come from. I think it's a bit of both, which makes me feel awful. I don't want to be judgemental but at the same time I can't help it/but it does concern me as well.

OP posts:
FruitCider · 07/09/2016 20:42

Sorry I've been on the phone.

Being supportive of transpeople does not mean I'm anti women in any form.

Anyway, I posted openly, stating I was confused about why I was feeling this way. However the posters who have worked in the same environment as me state they would be concerned. That's eased my conflict a bit.

OP posts:
IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 07/09/2016 20:39

Just read her threads. Totally anti women on the trans threads and now, slutty women ahoy

Maudlinmaud · 07/09/2016 20:29

What do you mean I believe ?

IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 07/09/2016 20:25

It's all pish. It's Cider throwing anti women stuff in again.

IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 07/09/2016 20:19

WTAF Fruit

With all your trans stuff and you are worrying how women 'present'?

ladamanera · 07/09/2016 20:17

Then the attack would still would not be her fault. Says the human rights lawyer, firmly. Are you saying you are in fact concerned for her welfare? Because that really does not come across. If you suspect she is trying to actively seduce one or more of the prisoners, that would make most feel uncomfortable- because that could "break the fourth wall" as it were for the othrt staff and is inappropriate in a safeguarding capacity- but just say that. Don't make it about "makeup choices".

Pestilence13610 · 07/09/2016 20:16

Lipstick and lip balm are conveniently shaped lube. Grin
However as balm can be bought on canteen and many women consider lipstick essential it is not enforced, until you get a daft twat like you have.

FruitCider · 07/09/2016 20:10

Pestilence I'm not directly employed, I work there through another organisation. Is lipstick really not allowed? I never knew that!

To the other poster: it made me feel uncomfortable as the majority of the men are vulnerable and may get the wrong impression about the team. My whole day is full of innuendos, which I largely brush off, but is why I choose to wear minimal make up and not look sexualised for work. Imagine if one of the men took the heavy make up/dresses the wrong way and attacked one of the team?

OP posts:
Maudlinmaud · 07/09/2016 20:05

I have stumbled in here by mistake. How the hell does pink lippy represent a vagina? And why would any woman consciously make that choice? I wear lipstick for me not men. Please dont flame me. Tiptoes back out.

FruitCider · 07/09/2016 20:04

So actually I'm NOT being unreasonable or confused because I don't like the way they present, I don't like it because it's wrong? I've been so worried. I make a concerted effort not to judge people on how they look and I've felt all judgy pants since I started my job. My gut is obviously telling me something for a reason. Thank you so much!

OP posts:
Pestilence13610 · 07/09/2016 20:03

Make-up and perfume are covered in the dress code.
You are also not allowed lipstick on site (in the small print and no often raised).

You have reminded me that I am happy to have changed job.

ladamanera · 07/09/2016 20:02

Sounds like the sort of thing someone would say flippantly, possibly in reply to someone judgy or to accusatory question, rather than as a serious and sole statement of intent. To complain that someone wearing makeup is therefore doing it to show men her figurative vagina is maybe a step too far? I think you need yo consider the root cause of why you are uncomfortable. It may turn out that this unfortunate phrasing confirmed your wider prejudices/worries rather than was proof of anythhing in itself. So, what are those worries? .

Scarydinosaurs · 07/09/2016 20:01

I would feel deeply uncomfortable about that. I worked in a similar situation (but with teenage boys instead of men) and a member of staff expressed similarly worrying intentions in her dress and her ideas about how what she wore should make the boys react. I had a word with my supervisor and let her sort it out.

Pestilence13610 · 07/09/2016 20:00

Have a word with your supervisor, or pop into security for a casual word. These things can go seriously pear shaped.
The reference to bright pink lipstick reminding men of vaginas is OTT, professional misconduct and more to the point dangerous.

FruitCider · 07/09/2016 19:57

Blerg you may be on the right lines. However the clothing/make up complies with the generalised policy. There is no specific one. Obviously the comment about vaginas isn't hat appropriate but it was in a staff area.

OP posts:
ClaudiaApfelstrudel · 07/09/2016 19:57

I think I'd feel uncomfortable too in that situation

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