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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

To think that women should not be referred to as menstruators and pregnant people?

380 replies

FRETGNIKCUF · 04/09/2016 07:34

*This is a thread about the impact trans activism is having on women. This is the beginning.

Don't read on if you're going to whine about another trans thread.*

Julian Vigo (@lubelleludotcom on Twitter) wrote the following.

There is a war on women, folks. The transgender lobby has gone down the rabbit hole by refusing to acknowledge that women's lives and bodies not only matter, but that they are real. Instead women's bodies have become the simulacra in an extended theatre of male entitlement (to be women while telling women to STFU) or they are rendered an extension of male subjectivity such that we now see hairy transmen's female bodies breastfeeding, the only form of female body hair that would ever be allowed in Time magazine.

And now for the latest: we are being called "menstruators" by the same right-wing discourse which seeks to remove the mention of woman from women's healthcare across the USA (ie. now many providers have been pressured to remove the term woman and write instead "pregnant person.") It is as if the last 100 years of women's rights had never occured.

The ironies are multiple. Here you have a group which claims its own marginalisation while working steadily to marginalise an already marginalised group, women. Then you have a group of female people who by virtue of the current transgender identity doxa necessitates "gender dysphoria," yet paradoxically adheres to—and even embraces—the real and symbolic thrust of much of what the female body actually is and produces, a complete opposition to gender dysphoria. Therein lies the greatest contradiction which, not surprisingly, once again holds women hostage: woman is symbolic for those who emulate her, woman is only acceptable inasmuch as she recognises males as females, and women are now relegated to "non-males" by political parties, as "pregnant humans" and "menstruators" by females who reject their bodies yet who hold out for the double-bind of gender in this theatre of cruelty where only a [sic] "man" can truly understood pregnancy, breastfeeding, and motherhood.

The only parallel I can think of is if the KKK were to insist that the Black Panthers stop calling themselves "black", demand that their white hoods be viewed as black, assert that only white people know what it is like to experience life as a black person, and then turn around and maintain that black people are just a group of entitled, bio-essentialist racists.

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LassWiTheDelicateAir · 10/09/2016 23:46

I hope it helped you understand the intersex issues...

Thanks Katy. It did. Intersex doesn't get much discussion.

CoteDAzur · 10/09/2016 16:56

I don't understand why intersex people are raised as a rebuttal to "Humans are a sexually dimorphic species", though. Intersex is a disorder. It is not a third sex.

It's like answering "Humans are a bipedal species" with "But what about people born with just one foot".

It makes no sense.

CoteDAzur · 10/09/2016 16:52

Thank you for your informative posts, Kate.

Katexxy · 10/09/2016 12:27

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LassWiTheDelicateAir · 10/09/2016 12:04

Katey I found that video a bit confused to be honest. She seemed to be mixing biological sex with cultural gender at several points.

Katexxy · 10/09/2016 11:48

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Prawnofthepatriarchy · 10/09/2016 11:42

Considering how few intersex people there are, it's interesting how often I've seen posts from intersex people complaining about their issues being co-opted by TRAs. In fact I've never seen a post from an intersex person who thinks the two groups have anything in common.

TRAs, for some reason, seem keen to enlarge the pool of intersex conditions. I've seen PCOS defined as intersex, which is absurd.

TwatbadgingCuntfuckery · 10/09/2016 09:43

So the current trans activists community negatively affects true intersex people by adopting incorrect terminology to prop up their arguments....

Katexxy · 10/09/2016 09:23

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Bambambini · 10/09/2016 09:18

Yes the lack of critical thinking is worrying and astonishing. Like you join the Borg or a cult. Surrounding yourself with like thinking people, blocking any opposing or even questioning views.

I find it fascinating. I imagine many are young, passionate and some are confused and vulnerable and finding their way. I used to totally defend the trans position and their rights - before i actually had thought about it and looked into it, reading views from different sides.

TwatbadgingCuntfuckery · 10/09/2016 09:00

I agree.

There are people who have XXY and XYY and varying combinations who are still definitely male or female. They are not intersex because they have a specific set of genitalia/ reproductive organs that they cannot be anything other than male/female. They do not have both male and female reproductive tissue/organs.

Intersex people have both or partially both male and female sex tissue/organs (many have partial organs not compete one and are sometimes sterile because of this)
Intersex people can be diagnosed effectively through examination of tissue under microscope.

Interestingly only a few intersex people grow up and decide the gender they were living as didn't fit.

I cannot find statistics about this. There is a possibility the % of people within the intersex group changing their social gender could be higher than the general population but that number is still very small and points to gender identity being a social and/or mental health concern that should be explored first with extensive therapy and a much more gender critical look at society as a whole should happen.

Katexxy · 10/09/2016 08:06

This reply has been deleted

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TwatbadgingCuntfuckery · 10/09/2016 07:39

I want MN to re instate it or give a reason for the deletion. How on earth can we possibly know what we've don't wrong without being told Hmm

nooka · 10/09/2016 06:12

I too thought it a really informative post, coming from a fairly unique perspective. That someone must have reported it and MN deemed it offensive shows how far down the rabbit hole we really are.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 09/09/2016 23:09

I read that post, Katexxy,'and found it very interesting. Was going to cut'n'paste it into a fascinating facts document.

Can't think what MNHQ objected to. Surely it couldn't be considered transphobic? As I recall,it was about genes mostly. Baffling.

WinchesterWoman · 09/09/2016 20:00

Nice to see you back :)

Katexxy · 09/09/2016 19:58

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shins · 09/09/2016 19:34

Why was katexxy's post deleted?

WinchesterWoman · 09/09/2016 07:59

That's such an interesting perspective katiexxy thank you.

WinchesterWoman · 09/09/2016 07:55

If everybody understood 'true' , 'true by definition' and 'empiricayou lly observed but not logically impossible' then a lot of this 'cuntfuckery' (helpful word thanks) wouldn't get off the ground. It's the gender critical feminists who have it. Brains like scythes.

Katexxy · 09/09/2016 07:47

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TwatbadgingCuntfuckery · 09/09/2016 07:39

Yes winchester it's not really debated but prescribed. None of those tough questions that don't have an answer either. Ah I miss philosophy discussions. Ours would get a bit heated sometimes.

TwatbadgingCuntfuckery · 09/09/2016 07:37

www.futurelearn.com/courses/logical-and-critical-thinking There we go folks! This one starts sept 26th for 8weeks and you can do it in your own time. All resources are in the course via links, videos and occasionally PDFs to read plus an 'additional reading' list.

You just need a pen and paper to crack on :)

WinchesterWoman · 09/09/2016 07:31

And when philosophy IS taught in school it's usually a sort of vague 'be nice' relativist moral philosophy.

WinchesterWoman · 09/09/2016 07:29

Mind if I come back - got to echo that shout out for critical thinking. This is so desperately lacking. A little Theory of Knowledge goes a long way.

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