Only trans women have vaginas, women have 'front holes'

Thanks for posting that, math. So much in it that's so worrying.

About a year ago, I saw an image making the rounds on Facebook of a little girl climbing a tree or something, getting dirty, being active, having fun. The caption was along the lines of "not a tomboy, not 'just like one of the boys', not 'not-a-girly-girl'. Just a girl. Being a girl. Climbing a tree." Right on, I thought.

In that Mermaids guide for schools, there is an illustration presumably done by a kid in one of the lgbtq groups that sponsored the guide. It says "I'm not a tomboy... I'm a boy!" It's such a chilling contrast in ideology, and this is now what's regarded as progressive, even feminist.

In the Mermaids guide, it's advised that students expressing concern about changing in front of transgendered classmates should be offered an alternative, such as a nearby toilet stall. math have you seen the Irish dept of education lgbtq guide? Here's how it advises the pubescent-girl-uncomfortable-with-penis-in-the-changing-room scenario is dealt with:

The use of toilet and changing facilities often
causes most debate around the inclusion
of transgender students. Other students
and their families may feel uncomfortable
with a transgender student using the same
gender-specific facilities. This discomfort
may be rooted in an unfounded assumption
of inappropriate behaviour on the part
of the student who is transgender and
consequently it is not a reason to deny access
to the transgender student. However, it is
important to address this discomfort and
to foster understanding of gender identity
in order to create a school culture that
respects and values all students and prevents
transphobic bullying.

Right. So, no alternative to offer, no validation of her right to privacy and to define her own boundaries, just re-education of the girl and/or her parents, who are presumed to lack "understanding of gender identity." As if the response to a child summoning the courage to say "I don't feel comfortable being naked with this person" should EVER be "let me explain why you're wrong to feel that way, and how you can do a better job of ignoring your personal boundaries in order to prioritise the comfort and approval of others."

MissiAmphetamine:
I also worry how 'gender identity' is going to be taught to young, impressionable children. Surely it can only be done by cementing gender stereotypes even more strongly in their heads, which is just awful

Nail on the head there, and that is really the crux of the matter.

We have to look gender squarely in the face and we have to tackle it head on, but we are being silenced by a shrill lobby shouting 'Transphobia!' at us for doing so.

Well said math. This is extremely worrying.

Here is an exhortation to schools in Brighton:
Ensure that the curriculum and in particular PSHE is used to challenge gender stereotypes, support the development of a positive sense of gender identity, develop understanding of trans* issues and prevent transphobia.

How much serious challenging of gender stereotypes was ever done in the interests of girls? Tell me again how girls fare in STEM subjects in university and in STEM careers? Remind me what problems they face trying to break into STEM areas?

When we don't really understand the concept of gender and the sort of effects the concept had and continues to have on girls, we write tripe like that.

And once again we see that until boys make a stink about something it will be ignored.

There is also a relationship between transphobia, homophobia and sexism. Sexist, sexual or transphobic bullying are the not the same as homophobic bullying. However, very often, sexist attitudes manifest themselves in homophobic bullying and any child or young person who is perceived as not expressing stereotypically masculine or feminine traits expected of their sex, might experience homophobic or transphobic bullying. Staff will need to use their professional judgement as to whether some incidents should be recorded as homophobic or transphobic, but take care not to under-record transphobia. Sexist, sexual or transphobic bullying may also occur in conjunction with other forms of bullying, such as racist bullying or bullying related to special educational needs or disabilities

Circling around sexism and the real meaning of gender again. Sexism consists of ascribing negative traits to members of one sex, and using those traits as insults. It also involves a sense of entitlement on the part of the dominant sex - entitlement to use of the labour and the genitalia of the second class sex and assumptions that the inferior sex are put on earth to serve the dominant one, without which role the second class sex is to be mocked and pitied. Sexism is a huge problem for those categorised as second best, namely half the world's population.

As an example, 'hysteria'' is something women are often accused of.

Schools are exhorted to allow:
Use of toilets/changing rooms appropriate to their gender identity rather than biological sex
Because obviously, some people's needs come before the needs of others, and those others should shut up and do as they have been conditioned to do for thousands of years.

And now we come to the real impact of all of this:
7.6
Changing rooms
The use of changing rooms by trans pupils and students should be assessed on a case-by- case basis in discussion with the trans pupils or student. The goal should be to maximise social integration and promote an equal opportunity to participate in physical education classes and sports, ensuring the safety and comfort, and minimising stigmatisation of the pupil or student. In most cases, trans* pupils or students should have access to the changing room that corresponds to their gender identity. This approach is underpinned by the Equality Act 2010, whereby refusing a child or young person access to the changing room of their true gender identity would constitute an act of discrimination.

Any pupil or student who has a need or desire for increased privacy, regardless of the underlying reason, should be provided with a reasonable alternative changing area, such as the use of a private area (eg a nearby toilet stall with a door, an area separated by a curtain, or a nearby office), or with a separate time to change (e.g. using the changing room that corresponds to their gender identity before or after other students). Any alternative arrangement should be provided in a way that protects the pupil or student’s ability to keep his or her trans* status confidential.^

And what of the girls?
The girls who want privacy?
The girls who might wish to be consulted about how their changing room looks and feels and who uses it?
The answer is as always:
'Shut up, girls. Your needs are always going to come second to those of boys and your opinions don't matter. You should already know this because you have been brought up in a world where facts of biology don't matter - it doesn't matter that your brain and your brother's brain have equal potential, it doesn't matter that your body could conceive and gestate and deliver a baby - and the only things that matter are the feelings of boys and men, who sit atop the hierarchy.'

This bullshit is the wave of the future, coming very soon to a school near you. Much sooner than you might like to think.

MathAnxiety Thank you for the link! I'll force myself to read it tonight as no doubt it will be very informative

Just from the bit you quoted though - it's interesting that their core definition of cisgender would imply that gender critical people, who believe gender is an externally imposed social construct and not an innate identity, are indeed not 'cisgender'.

I also worry how 'gender identity' is going to be taught to young, impressionable children. Surely it can only be done by cementing gender stereotypes even more strongly in their heads, which is just awful

Gender concerns your internal sense of self and how you choose to express yourself. Gender is considered by some to be a social construction, in that children learn how to behave in a manner deemed to be in line with their biological sex.

Wrong.

Gender refers to a hierarchical concept and a social and legal system that expresses that concept where men are superior and women are inferior. In a gendered society, all qualities ascribed to men are considered superior and all qualities ascribed to women are considered inferior. None of the qualities has ever been proven to be innate to ether men or women.

Hysterical - a word whose origins lie in the Greek term for 'uterus'.

If you think schools won't use this language, then look again at schools and remind yourself that teachers have absolutely no say in what codswallop they must support if they are told they must support it, from policing lunchboxes and telling children they can't bring cheese to school to teaching the transactivist agenda to small children.

www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/assets/media/East%20Sussex%20schools%20transgender%20toolkit.pdf
Read this carefully. This is the future.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this:
However, wherever possible, individuals should be given opportunities to say how they identify or describe themselves rather than labels being ascribed to them.

Cisgender Person – A person whose biological sex matches their gender. For example, a female sexed person who identifies with their female gender. In other words, it is a term for non-trans* people.

The massive irony of course being that if you object to being called 'cis-woman' you are a transphobe.

And if you point this out then you are a transphobe.

And you are told not to be hysterical when you correctly identify the way the wind is blowing and correctly point out that females as a class of people are being erased in law and in language by transactivists, a word whose origins lie in the Greek term for 'uterus'.

We have a solution, Bitofacow.

It involves using the proper terms for the appropriate genitalia and not confusing sex which is a matter of biology with gender which is a hierarchical social construct.

It involves acceptance of the idea that you cannot 'feel like 'a woman' or 'feel like a man' because the implication that all women or all men are one or two dimensional cardboard cutouts is deeply disrespectful to all individual men and women. It is 'othering' brought to the Nth degree.

So you feel you are not a man? That doesn't mean you are a woman. Women are not 'Not Men'. You feel you are not a woman? That doesn't mean you are a man. Men are not 'Not Women'.

It is also a case of confusing surface level and socially conditioned attributes and even non essential elements such as clothing and shoes that are expressions of gender and confusing them with essential and innate elements - biological sex.

I'm not a fucking cis woman. There's no such thing as a cis woman. The term is grossly offensive.
I agree, 100%

As much as it may not ring true with some, a vagina is female and so much more than a hole. I have no children and don't intend on having any, but my vagina is much more than a hole/cavity. Nobody born male can have one, despite surgery, regardless of what this pamphlet says. Any other rhetoric is cruel and delusional towards those who think otherwise

purplesagefem.wordpress.com/2016/09/02/safer-sex-guide-for-trans-people-is-unprofessional-and-unsafe/

The above blog post is very good I think, and explains some of the problems with the leaflet

I agree with what previous posters have said about how this leaflet is not just aimed at trans people, but at anyone who may have reason to interact with their genitals. I also agree with what previous posters have said about how the amount of self-loathing present if one can not even name one's vagina a vagina, is very concerning.

While I understand the point of the leaflet is to ensure safe sex for trans people, whose loathing or dissociation from their genitals prevents them from engaging, were the organs labeled properly, the exclusivity around vaginas and not penises, is unnecessary, and telling.

Why is it not "a vagina may belong to people of all genders," as they say with 'dick'?

Why do they say 'dick' instead of 'penis'but use the word 'vagina'and not a colloquial term as with dick?

Why is is called a 'front hole' when it could be both more accurate and marginally less offensive if called 'middle passage'?

Why, if penises can be female, as transactivists tell us, can vaginas not be male vaginas? (I suspect (internalised) misogyny is at play here.)

All up, it's badly thought out, innaccurate, unbalanced and inequal in male vs female genital descriptions, does affect more than just trans people (such as their doctors, partners, potentially their children,) and unnecessarily disparaging of female genitals.

That leaflet is ludicrous!

It's talking about preventing pregnancy and uses the phrase 'person with an intact uterus'. Ffs just say a woman!!

I was born a woman and that hasn't changed; I don't see why that needs to be qualified in any additional way.

How about we call transgendered women "non-cis" instead, seeing it's just "descriptive" and not insulting?

female lesbians. Just lesbians. All lesbians are female. Changed my mind between 'females' and 'lesbians' and ended up with both.

A Human Rights response would be to state that although the individual in question may have the body of a boy

Many people who identify as trans are now rejecting that their bodies are their biological sex at all. Sophie Labelle who created the (appalling and hilarious in equal measures) web comic 'Assigned Male' for example created this lovely poster that you can buy in her web store.

65.media.tumblr.com/83bd1ea01414a98acbd0beef10fd21ce/tumblr_oc2eqm6uFq1tm163xo3_1280.jpg

Pigs will fly before this bullshit language stays in the trans community because transbians want to fuck female lesbians rather than each other for some strange reason.

So it's OK to use hateful, misogynistic terms for women's bodies as long as it stays within the trans community?

Yeah, that sounds like it will work.

And do you honestly think schools will just use this language? Ffs give teachers some credit. The language is wrong because it is evolving. But just jump up and down and ratchet the hysteria up and that with will help no end.

The point I was making was if everyone keeps calm we can reach a solution. Yes mistakes are being made but that is life.

No it is far more fun to make aggressive assertions and behave like oppressors. We aren't so don't act like we are. Moral high ground people. Restrain yourselves and be reasonabl, if they want to use the way term 'hole' let them it reflects far more on them - whoever 'they' are.

Shouting at each other or anyone plays into the hands of misogynists. Shrill, hysterical women can't control themselves.

Thank you.

Yeah language is important. We need it to form and express our thoughts.

Can you imagine a cheerful leaflet describing actual penises as "rape sticks" (or something equally man hating and horrible), the clitoris as "a penis" and people then saying stuff like "language evolves and trans people need language that describes their experience" ???

Somehow I can't quite.

Women have fuck front holes though and that's just dandy. Just realised that this leaflet is from the Whitman-Walker Clinic for crying out loud.

Thank you smashing you said it perfectly!

Yes real nice progression of language there. Really helpful to humanity.

It's fucking destroying it and, in turn how we think. Words are important.

And yes language changes and evolves.

Forgive me if I don't view vaginas being described as "holes" in sex education leaflets as particularly progressive however.

Yeah lots of it is really sad.

Like young non feminine women who struggled with puberty and breasts and periods and being objectified as the sex class being told that they are men and that if they cut off their breasts, take testosterone and call their vaginas "holes" they will feel better and find their real authentic selves. That the problem is them not society.

And then some of these women detransition and tell stories that make you weep over their damaged bodies and their bravery.

Yeah it is sad. It is sad to tell women that their genitals are holes, that they are men because they fancy women and don't like wearing the trappings of femininity. It is so horribly sad.

I

I was look for information on trans education in schools and came across a guide put together by Mermaids (a UK charity) for a council on how to be inclusive and support transgender kids, things like how they must be allowed to use the toilets corresponding to their gender unless the trans person is uncomfortable with this, ditto on school trips should room share based on their gender unless transperson uncomfortable with this.

I found the two helpful scenarios at the end shocking interesting though:

Scenario 1
^My daughter doesn’t want a boy changing next to her,
what if he looks at her body?^

For example, in this scenario it would not be appropriate to remove the trans* person
from the changing rooms if a concern is raised by a parent or carer. In this situation, it
would be far more appropriate to look at offering an alternative changing arrangement
for the child who feels uncomfortable around the trans* person. A Human Rights
response would be to state that although the individual in question may have the
body of a boy, they are in every other respect a girl and as such have the right under
the Equality Act to change with the girls and to be treated fairly as such. It is the
responsibility of members of staff to support both trans* students and cisgendered
students to feel comfortable around one another.

Scenario 2
^It’s not fair that he enters the 100 metres race for girls
when he is a boy/Or Won’t she get injured playing rugby
with boys?^

Similarly, pupils or students who feel that a trans* child should not be involved in
certain sporting activities may themselves need to be supported to do a different
activity.
This kind of support acknowledges that some individuals may struggle to understand
trans* people or initially feel uncomfortable around them, but does not support the
idea that trans* people should be treated any differently to cisgendered people. The
responsibility lies with the individual who has the problem to deal with that problem,
not with the trans* person to accommodate for that person’s insecurity around them or their child"

www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/assets/media/East%2520Sussex%2520schools%2520transgender%2520toolkit.pdf

English changes all the time, it evolves. It is a mongrel language and all the better for it. The flexibility of English is one of it's strengths.