Trans Understanding Help

Hold the front page

Great so you agree, there isn't a consensus amongst the majority of women about transwomen.

sorry for the rushed reply got to get on with some RL stuff tonight

Haven't read all the thread yet but Vashta's quote

The truth is that this country's political and media elite are also virtue-signalling like mad. Aren't we progressive? Aren't we modern? Aren't we with the zeitgeist?

This sums up for me my frustration at most of the liberal commentators on this issue, particularly in the US. They take the stance of being so good, so compassionate and anyone who does not agree with them are mean, nasty bigots. In the US, those opposed to TA are typified as the deep south gun toting KKK types and those supporting are the lovely Ivy League liberal elites.

It's all liberal self congratulation.

Hold the front page.

I wasn't that shocked at the Brexit vote, tbh

So you weren't shocked and I was.

Well this is back to my point really. Different people think different things.

TheHubbles - got a link to trans being equally violent?
ta xx

I wasn't that shocked at the Brexit vote, tbh.

this is useful and therefore contraversial
thenewbacklash.blogspot.co.uk/p/9-documented-harms-to-women-and-girls.html

I'm not saying it's just women on mumsnet. Just that on Internet forums you tend to get like minds posting together.
And sometimes it gets a bit echo chambery. I'll admit I was shocked by the Brexit vote, I don't know many leave voters but that doesn't mean they don't exist (in large numbers).

Women on mumsnet are perhaps more informed about it.

No, it's not just women on mumsnet.

Many women don't like it, when. Don't try to downplay it

Many women on mumsnet don't like it. This is a bit of an echo chamber. If mumsnet was representative of the U.K. population we would have a labour government and we would have voted remain.

Many women don't like it, when. Don't try to downplay it.

Then trans activists came along and started demanding that rather than a privilege earned by being polite, access to women's changing rooms was a right of transwomen - and women went - 'hang on, no, it really isn't

No - some women don't like it. There are plenty who aren't arsed. Who are made aware of some of the vile crap spouted by some extremist transactivists - and are aware that the average transwomen is nothing like that.

And there seems to be an increase in trans people who present as the sex they were born at work and with family, but as the opposite sex when out socially. Legally when they go out socially they have to be treated as the gender they say they are.

I have been in a women's toilet when gay men have been there. I very much minded and told them so.

And choc sums up exactly what the issue is.

I think people often go in the wrong sex loos in nightclubs or bars after a few drinks. It doesn't make it right, but people aren't as bothered.

At the moment it's the honour system - we believe that you're actually a woman/man if you're in the womens'/mens' toilets, and that's worked fine. Polite, trans women, not causing a fuss, have been in the womens' changing rooms, not causing trouble, and we've, similarly politely and not making a fuss, not worried about it.

Then trans activists came along and started demanding that rather than a privilege earned by being polite, access to women's changing rooms was a right of transwomen - and women went - 'hang on, no, it really isn't' - especially not if you're planning to wander around the changing rooms naked with our girl children, or force them all to change in front of you.

To be fair the cleaners could have been gay too. You are right I can't tell by looking at someone.

They said they were gay (two completely separate occasions)

One said I'm with my friend (female). The other said I just can't stand the blokes loos, they are filthy. it was a while ago so that's not verbatim but that's the gist

Both times were nights out and no one cared.

2 gay men- how on earth could you tell and why on earth were they in the women's loo???????

No one polices toilet usage now do they? It polices itself

I've been in women's toliets 4 times in the last 2 years when a man has also been there. 2 cleaners, 2 gay men - no one cared.
But the self regulating toliet isn't always man free. No idea if I've shared toliets with

Currently women and leisure centre managers are unwilling to challenge TW behaving threateningly in female changing rooms because they don't want to be accused of being phobic

I would hope that management treat a threatening transwoman the same way they would treat a threatening woman and ask her to leave / call the police depending on what she did.

I didn't say that

I just said that you don't need anyone to police toilet usage. No one polices toilet usage now do they? It polices itself.

Currently women and leisure centre managers are unwilling to challenge TW behaving threateningly in female changing rooms because they don't want to be accused of being phobic. Having a third facility and a requirement to use said facility would mean people would feel able to object.

I'm sure if a bloke or TW got his todger out in the female changing room people would vocally object if there was an accepted place they should be

So you are happy for a penis to be in the women's changing room as long as no one sees it? So if individual changing cubicles are used (most changing rooms have these) that's ok. Or if it's a fully communal changing room then it's best to change with a towel over the lap to be discrete.
That sounds fair enough.

You don't need to police it. You just need acceptance that it's a reasonable thing to have.

I'm sure if a bloke or TW got his todger out in the female changing room people would vocally object if there was an accepted place they should be.