Trans Understanding Help

I suspect that in small pubs and venues where an individual transgender man is known there's a lot more leeway about loos. But that's because of his known character and is more like a domestic situation.

(My post was in relation to the article confusing linked to)

I don't think this is new, I think persistently misgendering to cause upset is already a hate crime isn't it? (Which is not the same as a one-off mistake). And to be fair, even the most critical posters on MN generally say they respect someone's pronouns when talking to them.

Princess there are other groups of men who might feel at risk in the gents. Effeminate men (though I haven't seen any push from gay men to gain the right to use women's loos), men who belong to a racial group that's a threatened minority in the location. I've even heard of men being worried about using the gents because they support the wrong football team!

But finding men's facilities threatening is no reason to expect women to allow you access to spaces designed as female-only. Because if MtTs have the right to use those facilities then all men inevitably gain the right too. Male transgenders may be scared of male violence but women have at least as much experience of that and are considerably less able to defend ourselves.

Demands for phoney changed pronouns, access to sex-segregated spaces, and all the rest can only be achieved by shitting on women and up with this I will not put.

Sorry didn't read your post clearly enough. Generally trans women who get murdered are disproportionately prostitutes, black and living in countries where life is cheaper and murder rates are high overall. I think it's incredibly misleading to present murder of trans people as a common cause of death in terms of UK trans people. Particularly when trying to erode women's rights, given how many women are murdered by men.

You're right SirVix. They're also in countries where murder is more common across all social groups. And where thousands of women are murdered annually. It should go without saying that doesn't make it right.

If the stats are that one transwoman per year is murdered in the UK, then it is simply not possible for that to be "One of the main causes of death" as quoted upthread. I would also hazzard a guess that the one TW murdered per year is likely to be someone in a situation where murder is more likely for anyone. (e.g. prostitution). Not that it is even relevent. Women should not give up their safe places because of male violence, in fact the reverse is true.

Thanks noeffing, I'll read that later, off on a poke hunt now!

MtT are most at risk of being murdered in situations women are in Britain. Both are most at risk if they are prostituted, and it is pimps and punters who are the murderers. And partners. Both are at low risk of being murdered by strangers.

lumpy, no, the whole number of homicides are lower than that. Thankfully, we live in quite a safe society.
www.citizensreportuk.org/reports/murders-fatal-violence-uk.html

As a pp said (though it may have been on a different thread) the majority of murders of trans women happen in South America. In Brazil they are still massively outnumbered by the number of biological women murdered each year.

I would be very interested in those figures if you have them to hand. Isn't it 1000 annually?

Anyone interested in how many women are murdered in the UK every day?

littlepricesssara the figures for murdered transwomen in the UK were given upthread. I /year over the last 8 years. Hardly the 'main cause' of death then.

Princess - if transwomen are allowed to be scared of male violence and come and deserve to come hide with us in the ladies for their protection, why can't women similarly be scared of male violence and not want transwomen with them in the ladies?

No worries, lumpy

Classic liberal lefty, my original stance was "poor them, live and let live." But as I have learned more my position has changed.

I have come to understand that the claim, by no means restricted to vile misogynists like Ada Wells, that "transwomen are women" is of itself extremist. Once you accept this fiction all the rest of the bollocks follows.

I will not concede one centimeter of woman-only space to these guys. I don't identify as a woman, I am a woman. Men have no right to wear woman-face; to treat our material reality like a costume.

This account from a butch lesbion

Just shows how toxic gender roles are.

Grin failure, cursed I am, cursed...

Sorry venus that Righto sounded well passive aggressive!

It just meant, cool, thanks for clearing that up! [grin}

Tortoise, the butch women / trans men are often used by the trans lobby in the us to aid their cause. they show you a picture of someone with a beard and state do you want this person in your bathroom? I always think that if they are female, sure, come on in.

I am so angry as we should be challenging gender and ripping down the stereotypes but now the borders are being policed. I swear it's just a derailment to stop women achieving equal status in society.

Or the many masculine looking/butch biologically women who get abused and beaten up and thrown out of ladies look because society deems them not sufficiently female (despite being born with a vagina and an xx chromosome) to use women-only spaces.

--

Genuine question, has this ever happened? I can't particularly se it and of course if it has it is horrific. But I have never ever heard of anything remotely like this..

I was just pointing out people had got it wrong.

I see, righto then.

I think the problem was that a poster called littleprincesssara posted just before you defending trans ideology.