Deprogramming

evil giraffe- dad is 20 and that describes exactly what she says goes on now.

So depressing that it hasn't changed.......

I remember going out clubbing in my early twenties, it was pretty much guaranteed that I'd be groped. Hideous, but there were always so many people it was impossible to tell who the perpetrator was.

I also remember dancing with friends in a group, and whenever one of us got persistent unwelcome attention from a guy we'd silently absorb our friend into the middle of the group and then back out on the opposite side to the creep. That happened more times than I can remember, and we never once spoke about it or challenged the lowlifes.

And it's interesting that when people say they share the household work, if you drill down it's very rare for a man to do the low level, day to day mundane jobs- they do DIY, or service the car, or mow the lawn, or put the bins out. Or cook Sunday lunch.They don't cook children's tea, or wash up or make packed lunches, or sort out school uniform or feed the guinea pigs. Or nit comb.

So unless you need new shelves put up every day, or have 365 cars..........

Back to Sparrowhawk's point up thread - there are so, so many times I've witnessed a woman being complicit in her own or others' sexual harassment - I've done it myself plenty, in order to avoid confronting the uncomfortable fact that it's happening. By laughing along with the joke/pretending or even convincing ourselves we're enjoying the attention or experience, the awkwardness is diffused and we don't have to deal with the depressing reality of what's actually happening. I did this so much when I was younger, rather than acknowledge (even to myself) that I was a victim of harassment.

I posted about housework in Relationships this week. Another poster explained really well about how clean a man's toilet is being a deal breaker.

For me the cleaning double standard is that no-one expects someone in an office to hoover and clean their working environment, but if you're working in a home (ie a SAHM) then that's a luxury and lazy

Thinking about it.. all the jobs where cleaning is expected as part of the role, are primarily women .. nurse, shop staff, nanny, hairdresser... I need to think about that more!

Excellent mansplaining! The other day I was discussing an aspect of my country's culture (I'm not British) with a British man. He proceeded to tell me that he disagreed with my view since he'd seen a tv show made in my home country and in his opinion it showed something that contradicted me. It was hilarious, and he apparently had absolutely no compunction writing my knowledge off.

I was re-watching Star Trek DS:9 recently, and at one point Quark and Sisko are discussing Sisko's prejudical comments about Ferengi. Quark goes on about how Humans had slavery, concentration camps etc. and we're all supposed to go, wait a moment, perhaps the Ferengi aren't so bad, perhaps Humans are the bad ones.

I started seething, paused it and ranted at DP that it was a ridiculous plot point - Ferengi keep their women naked and at home, unable to travel or make profit. Ferengi enslave half their race, they even use it as a plot line in more than one episode, but there the script-writers were, not even slightly aware of the humungous double standard.

There are a lot of social hierarchies constructed around who deals with dirt and mess, aren't there? I'm just pondering. It's never the people in charge who do the cleaning. Particularly cleaning up other people's biological mess.

I am a keen baker for fun (so far, so stereotypical). I was talking to my dad, an educated educator, whom I would never consciously think of as a sexist.

I was telling him how I failed to make a lemon meringue once and the filling was a disaster.

He said to me, "What you need to do is make the lemon filling first, let it set, and then lift it as a solid and put it into the case afterwards."

That is not how you make a lemon meringue pie. I asked him if he had ever made a lemon meringue. He had not. He had never even read a recipe for a lemon meringue pie.

Yet somehow, he felt it was OK to explain to me what I must have done wrong. Mansplaining is real.

(But my dad is still lovely.)

And if he does clean the toilet some other women may judge you.

One thing I read somewhere was if you've got a man who thinks he splits the housework fairly "Actually I usually do the cooking" - ask who usually cleans the toilet.

This has some interesting points on the problems with "merit" as a way of deciding who to promote or hire.

Calling someone out on an office about 'jokes' is soooooo difficult in your twenties. Now I am confident enough no one dares to say anything.

I work with young people and have had some young men defend female contemporaries against sexist comments. Once secure they will not be dismissed and laughed at the young women in question have found a voice. It is a pleasure to watch.

Yeah. There's an argument against quotas because "don't you want the best person for the job"?

As if we are supposed to assume that the best people already are getting the jobs and it's just one of those things that only around 20% of the "best people" are women in, say, FTSE boards.

We get this at work. Some of the blokes in charge take offence at the idea that they've had some kind of assistance and that their position is not entirely down to their own innate brilliance. There has been a major backlash of late against various diversity initiatives and I suspect this resentment about the so-called meritocracy being questioned is part of that.

The suggestion that in actual fact they're playing the game of life on the 'easy' setting is taken as an insult to their talent.

Yes, this is very true.

We are lucky enough to have two bathrooms. One is designated a male bathroom the other female. The female bathroom is cleaned by women the male bathroom by the men of the house (not entirely serious). My 2ds see their father cleaning a toilet and they help him. So far, so feminist.

The standards in the female bathroom may be slightly higher😕, but I do not do the 'girl thing' of saying "oh men! I better to it". They are getting there.

So when guests come I inform them and give them a choice. The men laugh, ha ha ha. Some women disaprove and say:

How can you live with it ? (it's not a health hazard ffs)
Can you trust them to do it properly?
I Couldn't sleep in a house if I hadn't cleaned the bathroom
How can you put principles before hygiene?

All are direct quotes.

Absolutely, but most of the posts on everydaysexism are slightly more extreme, so men who don't catcall or yell out of car windows at teenage girls count themselves as not "one of them". Recognising your own prejudice/privilege is very hard to do, mind you.