New mothers need the whole story about AP.

I grew up in a family where the previous generation were pretty much on the AP spectrum, including my mother.

It was my normal for babies to sleep in their parents' beds, to breastfeed until toddlerhood.

I didn't feel judged by them when I chose to buy a cot and have my babies sleep nearby but not in my bed.

I got a ton of support when I initially struggled to breastfeed, and think I would have given up if it hadn't been for that sense of it as normal.

I have certainly seen some pretty nasty attitudes to mothers who prefer routines on MN.

I prefer them. That's just how I am - I fall into routines.

I genuinely can't imagine not structuring my own sleeping and feeding times as a matter of course.

When my eldest was just out of hospital and I was struggling to breastfeed and pumping milk to feed with a spoon or a bittle and sterlising everything and never knowing when I could sleep, I was barely eating because I couldn't find the time.

My ability to cope really improved when I stopped "going with the flow" and started thinking

• I will get up at X time

• I will eat around X, Y, Z times

• after each feeding attempt I will do A, B, C

• I will try to leave the house every day

I needed a structure to my day. That's who I am. So it became who my babies were.

Not because I expected them to, but because there's a certain gravity to a domestic routine, and they adjusted to it easily.

I have been judged for having nap times and bed times and regular meal times.

I don't really give a shit about the judgement from people who think their way is "natural" (for natural, read superior), but it is a bit disingenuous to pretend it doesn't exist.

The issue for me with feminism and parenting styles is that they are all (or rather objections to them are all) used as a stick to beat women, and women specifically, with.

AP? "You're failing your child by not instilling boundaries, failing your man by not getting the marital bed back to its correct, i.e. sexualised, function fast enough, failing society by not contributing to the GDP through the paid workplace..."

Routine based? "You're failing your child by not giving them emotional well being, failing society by producing maladjusted children." (I'm sure there must be some way in which you're failing your man too...)

None of these criticisms are ever turned outwards at the rest of society (well, they are, but only in feminist circles). Where are the Daily Mail articles on men doing the boring bits of childcare (the sandwich making, the sock sorting) as well as cherry picking the good bits (he's a hero because he takes the kids swimming while I do the weekly shop)? Where are the Economist articles critiquing the culture of presenteeism in the workplace and its detrimental effect on working mothers (when there's plenty of evidence-based research to show that presenteeism is counterproductive in terms of productivity)? Where are the articles in the Daily Telegraph pricing up the cost of replacing a SAHM's workload with a fulltime paid nanny and paid housekeeper to free her husband up to earn a 6 figure salary?

OP's post strikes me as a classic situation of not seeing the wood for the trees. Yes, we get that you hate attachment parenting. But you're failing to see that it is not attachment parenting in and of itself that is the problem, but the way it fits, or doesn't fit, into a whole interlocking set of other attitudes.

Incidentally, I have to quote this from the beginning of the thread: "Incidentally, AP often causes sleep deprivation which often causes depression which does not exactly lead to women having a full social calendar." I think you'll find, OP, that it is being the mother of a small baby which does this to you! Regardless of how you choose to parent.

not and - PND!

I had severe enough and to need hospital treatment after dc1 (now 16) was born - and it was following swmnbn routine that put me there, after dc1 would not conform to the book.

After that I took a much more relaxed approach to parenting, but was expelled from an email chat group (showing my age!) which was an AP group (i thought my co-sleeping, breastfeeding, cloth-nappy using, sling wearing would do) for daring to vaccinate my children.

There are extremes both ways. There are people who will take it to extremes both ways. Every way.

AP style parenting saved my sanity, though!

Why would we give people an income for raising their own child? Don't have children if you don't want to support them, they are not compulsory. Sorry, giving up you financial independence to rely on the goodwill of one man will never strike me as a feminist choice. Fair enough, do what you want, but all women's choices are feminist & it is a bit doublespeak to try & pretend they are.

So, OP, as you obviously have huge amounts of experience in motherhood, why not divulge your pearls of wisdom, rather than blanket slagging off other women.

I wait with baited breath.

Oh, and before you start anything, I didn't ap either of mine. I just did what suited us all best.

Attachment parenting has a specific definition. That definition doesn't include not disciplining children, or not vaccinating, or being vegan, even though I suspect AP parents may well be more likely to not vaccinate (for example, not trying to get into vaccination arguments!)

I did AP. Got loads of sleep, no career or marriage issues and happy babies. I didn't go around telling people how great AP is or joining any fb groups. I think you need to just not worry so much about other people OP. If it doesn't work for a parent they'll probably find their own way.

Yes I understand that but rather than the act of mother being the issue it's the way we place worth on it. So for example if everyone received a mincome it wouldn't be an issue.

"Attachment parenting really isn't the same as not having boundaries, routine, structure etc..."

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

ICJump, not working outside the home doesn't mean you're not a feminist, but surely you see that for an awful lot of women giving up their financial independence is a risky strategy. Every week there are posts from women who are married (or worse, not married as then they're entitled to half of fuck all), but who aren't in a position to be able to leave a shitty relationship.

Yes, of course all attachment parents are lazy, haggard, sexless martyrs. Sigh.

Reminds me of years back when that stupid Bringing up Baby show was on and the only measure of parenting success was getting a baby to sleep through the night in its own room. The attachment parents in that were actually getting a decent nights sleep, but because they were bed sharing and occasionally feeding in the night, it didn't count.

Also no one on this thread seems to be able to decide what AP actually is.

God this whole discussion is so tiring, so basically do what works for you and what makes you and baby happiest. Every mum is different, every baby is different.
Judgement will come from EVERYWHERE when you're a mum, that's the feminist issue, not specifically AP.
The idea that being a SAHM is anti feminist is ridiculous though.

Attachment parenting really isn't the same as not having boundaries, routine, structure etc...

I only ever here so being criticised as mad parenting, only don't by mothers who knit their own nappies. I think it has s terrible press, even though many aspects of it worked really well for me and meant I actually got more sleep and was more relaxed than with my first DC.

I knew quite a few women who AP (I trained as a BF peer supporter too so met others here)

IMO without exception every one ended up wit marriage/ relationship: husband issues as a result (talking 1-2yrs in here). Now 7yr later none have paid work (this is in London where every other mother I know works).

Seems to maybe be / become a bit of a hiding place for some women AP. Means they have a reason to be lazy (flame me!) eg one woman I know who was sleeping 4 in one bed and 2 sons were aged 4 and 6. When had she returned to work as everybody else did, could have afforded to rent a 2 bedroom flat easily (well paid IT trainer).

I think some people with depression / martyr tendencies can slip into an AP hole as it requires no major decision making 'follow the baby/ child' and weirdly absolves the parents of responsibility to an extent 'oh we don't do boundaries / bedtimes/ he chooses his own food (ages 3 ffs).

The chronic exhaustion as well of these parents a year or so in, how aged they look and how their social life has died plus personal hobbies often (chronic exhaustion plus all night bedroom shenanigans) is also never discussed.

I think the usual compromise/ regular approach of a good routine with bedtime boundaries BF if possible by 6m, plus time for mum and dad and self fulfillment should be promoted to new parents. Not the current 'round the clock BF forever' or 'formula feeding but we won't tell you how' as seems to be in the case

Sorry if this offends anyone but 7yrs in its interesting to see which women have careers and thriving children and strong marriages. You'd think it would be AP children but 3 I know are being assessed for behavioural issues only in year 1 / year 2 of school, all with mothers that wouldn't discipline / raise their voices. Quite shocking actually.

Ooh, busstopbetty, you are completely right and this is a massively interesting aspect of motherhood. My thinking about it has changed completely since I became a mother. I work but feel that the most interesting points for me are (1) the value placed on the work of mothering, (2) legal protection of those who do the work of mothering, and (3) why the government can't do more legislatively to safeguard women's employability in part-time roles and make it illegal not to offer all jobs as job shares, in order to protect the financial independence of primary parents who also have to balance work with caring responsibilities or take a career break.

This is probably for another thread! (I haven't found the feminist chat yet, will go have a peek...)

Is it really specific to AP though or is it about SAHMs of all persuasions?

I don't think you know what attachment parenting IS, OP.

"It's not AP, it's the whole damn thing!"

This. And as someone who AP worked for, including the superficial labelly bits like slings and co-sleeping (but doesn't think that's best for everyone, obviously) I am tired of the AP bashing. It's NOT ABOUT BEING A MARTYR. Or about following some kind of "herd".

Women giving up their financial independence wouldn't be an issue if there was no sexism and if men were equal committed partners. Even (shock horror) men could do AP and give up their own financial independence. It's not an AP problem, it's a sexism problem.

I can't really tell - because everyone seems to be coming at this from a different perspective - is the objection to the idea of a "parenting style" existing at all? Is it that it's assumed these particular practices such as SAHM, co-sleeping, slings, are prescribed? Or is it just that mothers are isolated, derided, unsupported, and yet told what to do all the time from people who are sitting in ivory towers never having even looked clearly in her direction?

Actually Dr Sears wasn't that keen on women working after having a child.

He was bashed for that of course, so his revised editions basically say "Work if you must, but as little as possible - you don't want to hurt that attachment you've worked so hard on, do you?"

I don't really have financial independence and I'm a feminist. I had intended to return to work but after DS was born I changed my mind and realised I wanted to be at home with him. I'm still a feminist.

The idea that only working outside the home is feminist is pretty off

I've read the whole thread and all I keep thinking is 'oh bog off OP.'

So that's my contribution.

Every parent thinks that their way of parenting their child is the right way. Of course they do. If they thought there was s better way they'd be doing that.

I think AP is s crock of shit borne out of either:

• unrealistic expectations set when pregnant before the realities of parenting kicks in. Or
• not having the energy to do anything else once the realities of parenting kicks in. Or
• being unable to break habits already in place once baby is older

I know others will disagree with me on this - in reference to my opening paragraph, everyone thinks their way is best.

I AP my firstborn, as a result of all three of the above reasons. I sure as hell didn't make the same 'mistakes' with subsequent children.

Interesting point - when I had DC2 and was much more routined and independent of me, (still bf tho). I had a bout of feeling really down when I realised how much I failed DC1 as a baby. Failed is maybe too stronger word, but that DC2 was so much happier, I was so much happier. I knew no different with DC1.

I didn't realise how much better it could be if I didn't thing differently. I didn't realise by trying to make life easier and more positive, I was actually making life with a baby much harder and difficult by APing.

I think it is a feminist issue is a style of parenting requires a woman to give up her financial independence (and yes, I appreciate that this is really at the extremes of AP).