Math Magazine and 'good' porn.

I just spent one minute scrolling through the girlsoutwest website and it's the same misogynistic porno crap all "feminist porn" turns out to be.

Just like in other porn, "teen" and "amateur" (operating as a synonym for teen, naive, young, inexperienced) remain the most common adjectives used to describe the women, although there are very likely real

Lass, with research pointing toward younger girls being shamed and coerced into taking part in ever more outlandish sexual acts with their pornsick teenage boyfriends, it's difficult to see how anyone can justify "porn as an educational tool".

I watch girlsoutwest which is porn produced by women only and has much more natural women in it. I like porn but not the typical stuff you find out there. The lesbian stuff from GOW is much softer and real and closer to what really happens during sex.

Lass - I would argue all education (done well) has value.

Thanks Xenophile always interesting to read articles on this issue.

I think she relies too heavily on the - you think you like it but you don't really argument. The writer says porn promotes enjoyment of "What we think we should like". The emphasis being on should. Well some people actually do like it - I refer to the face slapping thread, where the issue is consent not slapping.

To use a light hearted anology, fifty years ago no one liked Thai food. Well of course we didn't as we had never seen it or eaten it. Tastes change.

As a feminist my biggest concern is that young women struggle to express clearly what they want. They are pressured into having long hair on their head, removing pubic hair and to having anal sex. They should be able to choose what they want, not what we think they should want.

Mainstream porn creates a toxic environment. Feminist porn can help people make choices.

FWIW Dominatrix porn is actually very popular.

Pornography robs individuals of the opportunity to develop their own sexual behaviour and sexual preferences. There is no need to generate your own preferences because pornography does all the work for you

Yes , that makes sense. I'm not convinced at the suggestion of showing commercial porn films to a class and letting them deconstruct it has any value.

Arse!

Link Fail!

Sorted now

This article is interesting.

not graphic [[http://www.feministcurrent.com/2016/08/25/letter-men-porn-not-just-womens-problem/]] but it eloquently discusses why pron is bad for everyone.

I can't remember the exact details - I think it was The Netherlands. Anyway, some teachers were showing some porn in class and the students were deconstructing it. The same way you would a literary text. Was it believable? How realistic was it? Do real people look and act like that? They also discussed the ethics of porn. If I remember correctly the idea was that young people believe porn and by analysing it they would see it was as much fantasy as spiderman.

The students were then (hopefully) equipped to make educated decisions about whether or not to use porn and what to watch if they did.

Imagine the outcry if anyone attempted that in the UK?

Sorry "ethical porn market "

I was thinking about the "porn as education" justification.

I'm not convinced there is a need for this but I suppose if a bona fide health care provider recruited bona fide consenting couples and singles to demonstrate, for an agreed fee, the mechanics of masturbation, putting on a condom, oral and anal sex in a strictly controlled safe environment where no participant was doing anything they were uncomfortable with, there may well no ethical objection to it. It may even be useful for teens to see what real, concensual sex looks like.

I suspect however this is not really what the ethical porn market is about.

There is no way you will accept there can be people who enjoy making porn even if they are clear that they do

I'm sure there are women out there who enjoy making porn.
That its consensual, doesn't mean the porn they make is "good" as per the OP, or that the porn they make doesn't contribute to the overall harm that porn does to society - men and women - by presenting an unrealistic view of sex as "normal" and to be expected.
I also agree with the poster up thread that any "good" porn is likely to be drowned out by the volume of misogynistic rubbish

now it work

dis place i make post no my words come at top

Sigh. I will not defend this. Ever.

There is no way you will ever agree there is a spectrum from good to bad. There is no way you will accept there can be people who enjoy making porn even if they are clear that they do.

It is like saying because there is rape all sex is rape.
Men rape so all men are rapists.
Because some porn is evil all porn is evil.

I wanted to post about how, as feminists, we deal with porn in relation to our sons and other young people we know. But I can not face an evening of vitriol and invective.

This is porn.

This is appalling. Obviously.

I could post many more examples like this, but just sit a little while with this one. The rapists forced their victims to smile for pictures while being raped. Other reports detail how the Waseda Rape Manual instructed men to threaten disfigurement to victims who wouldn't smile:

Japanese Shocked By Student Gang-Rape Franchises
The Courier-Mail - Australia
9-18-3

TOKYO -- Young men from Japan's elite universities have had forced sex with hundreds of women after joining clubs which turned them into pack rapists.

The scandal was revealed with the arrest of Shinichiro Wada, ringleader of a notorious "Super Free" student club at Tokyo's prestigious Waseda University.

He is alleged to have raped as many as 500 women.

Wada and four other students were arrested on June 6 on suspicion of gang-raping a 20-year-old female student who attended a wild-drinking party in the seedy Roppongi night entertainment district in Tokyo.

After the party, the five took about 20 female students to another pub where they made one drunk with vodka.

They offered to help her outside and took her to a stairway-landing at a nearby building where they raped her in turn.

Wada, who joined Waseda's politics-economic department in 1994, is accused of turning serial rape into a profitable franchise. He has been the Super Free's honorary representative since 1995 and has reportedly earned *10 million ($A125,000) a year.

The club's main activity is to organise wild parties almost monthly at Roppongi clubs such as Velfarre, attracting up to 2000 participants each time who buy a ticket for between 3000-5000.

After a mass party, members take about 100 attractive girls to another club where they ply them with alcohol.

Then, the gang members select five or six drunken girls and take them to the club headquarters where they take turns raping them. The serial rapists had a manual on how to organise a party, sell tickets, sweet-talk girls and then calm them after the rapes.

In order to claim the sex is consensual, they have forced the victims to smile for pictures.

According to one victim, a group leader in the rape kept saying: "Hey, aren't you enjoying this? Smile. Say cheese."

Junichiro Kobayashi, one of the arrested Waseda students, reportedly said to a victim's boyfriend: "Look at this picture. It was consensual."

www.rense.com/general41/crin.htm

jezebel.com/5984021/how-i-became-a-feminist-porn-star

It is a lie for many but not all.

MrNoseybonk - you haven't been called creepy or a porn apologist yet for posting about porn on a porn thread. Come back in a while and we both will have been insulted.

No, I'm not. How can you misinterpret what I've said so much?
Just shows how FWR can derail anything.

You're choosing to believe a lie.

I have seen porn which depicts women enjoying it, so it does exist. Same for cunnilingus.

Your wording removes the intended recipient of the offered pleasure. That is neither the women in porn nor the women watching.

"To be honest, do the male actors enjoy or get pleasure from it?"

No, I am quite sure most often they don't.