My son is sexist.

Sorry to derail a little but with regards to parental leave...the thing with this is that a mum isn't just taking time off to look after her child, it's also to recover from pregnancy and birth. I had SPD, a second degree tear, various other issues. It took me a good 6 weeks before my back and pelvis was stable enough to actually comfortably walk. There's a hell of s lot of physical recovery post birth. I understand Rich might be aiming for equality, but there isn't equality in childbirth and recovery and I think parental leave reflects that.
However, it would be fair to access equal leave arrangements if you were adopting for example.

I always challenged it,but I love the fact that she does not believe the opposite applies to her ever(i'm sure society will soon try to change that).

It seems she has a healthy sense of self esteem! Congratulations!

I don't think society will be able to change that. She has already seen through this shit.

But challenging the idea that boys cannot wear pink or have long hair will be difficult, considering that very few boys do this ... uh ... watch the Hobbit movies with her? Elrond really rocks that long hair and robe look.

whattheseithakasmean
Your idea of feminism is from way back in the 60s and seventies, I fear. I was never very clever at traditional women's work myself, but it is very valuable and creative work.

Just because very few men ever valued it and a lot of women were denied much chance of doing anything other than that, does not mean that it is just sheer drudgery. Cookery is vital and creative, as is educating our children.

I'm all for people finding and being able to do what suits them best and I am grateful to feminism for making that possible. So some couples decide that they are both going to work fulltime and some prefer for one of them to stay at home.

As for Mega's grumbling about the inadequacies of paternity leave, why don't start a campaign, Mega. Join a union and chase up politicians. I am 100% in favour of paternity leave, it is also a feminist demand.

None really,she just says they can't. I asked her who told her that,and rarely the answer will be one of the boys in her class,but mostly it's "no one,they just can't". The scary bit is,they're only just starting reception this year and this stuff already gets said.

Rebel

What reason does she give for boys not being able to have those things?

DD comes home from school with a lot of this crap. Strangely enough is biased against boys. Boys cant have long hair,wear clips,wear pink,be princesses whatever. I always challenged it,but I love the fact that she does not believe the opposite applies to her ever(i'm sure society will soon try to change that). For example, i asked her how she would feel if someone told her she can't play football because she's a girl ,answer "but i can play football!" , i asked her how she would feel if she was told she couldn't be an astronaut ,answer "i'll just be a lady astronaut". Long may it continue,without the boys can't thing though

www.newscientist.com/article/dn22119-sinking-the-titanic-women-and-children-first-myth/

Reverting to the assertion that it's still "women and children first" off a sinking ship I have read that the survival rates for men on disasters at sea is much higher as their physical strength has allowed them to push weaker passengers out of the way - and that women are more likely to try to save their children rather than look out for themselves.

OP, nit sure if you are still following the thread, but what does your DP say to your son's comments?

There's an easy way to be sure that you know if you have a child Mega - stop having sex with women you don't know!

Do you really think women who know him would tell him if they were pregnant by him?

I mean, they'd probably rather dodge that bullet and be single moms instead. Hard as that is, it is better than living together with or having to share parental rights with an MRA.

So obviously his best bet if he ever wants to be in control of a child's life is to impregnate women who know him well enough to tell him that they're pregnant, but don't know him well enough to know to not tell him. That's a rather tiny time window, that.

Back on topic, hippo, good effort!

These insidious messages must be everywhere. We don't promote them in our house (both work, do DIY, cook, look after DD etc) but she still picks them up. She got upset about using her cousin's potty th other day because it's red and has a car on, so it's 'for boys.' A quick chat about how every woman she knows drives a car put a stop to that one, but there'll be another one along in a minute.

There's an easy way to be sure that you know if you have a child Mega - stop having sex with women you don't know!

It's not hard to get parental rights, you do have to go to court, but there are established procedures.

Single fathers would be entitled to leave - or do you mean fathers who aren't in a relationship with the mothers of their child?

Again, this can be solved by being a bit more choosy around who you procreate with, and either by avoiding sex, or by using contraception (which still has some risk) if for some reason you decide it's a good idea to have sex with someone you don't know or you have some reason to think won't want to be an equal parent with you.

My DP is on the birth certificate, he has taken some parental leave (not much, we didn't need it), he's taken the kids to groups - because he was careful to choose someone to have kid with who actually quite likes him, and wants him to be involved (ie. me) - no legal bludgeons required.

Can I recommend you do the same?

Do you now?

That's nice dear.

Yes Freshwater, youre right. I sometimes doubt your commitment.

Why are we arguing when we have the common aim of equality?

Do we, I wonder? Jury's still out on that.

I'm trying to understand how big the problem is. Also, if it is primarily women who perhaps don't know the full name of the father (after a ONS, say)or else women fleeing an abusive relationship, that might change the approach you settle on to address the issue, don't you think?

Freshwater.. the thread is about breaking down attitudes to gender. I simply replied to a previous post. Why are we arguing when we have the common aim of equality?

Nope.

Youre the one putting numbers. Im talking about principle.

And it is as i said. A mother does not have to tell the father and she can make it very difficult for him to get parental responssibility. Even ifvhe gets in the birth certificate he has no automatic eight of access.

Andvshared parental leave is controlled by the woman.

Not sure how your points relate to the original post, Rich. They seem more like all-purpose MRA tropes to me. Say it ain't so!

I am angry about a variety of topics. It's how I get shit done. You say it like it's a bad thing

That's what I said, Rich.

Of the 700,000 odd children born in the uk last year, do you have an idea of how many were born without the father's knowledge?

Given married, cohabiting, casual and FWB relationships, plus of course any desire to seek maintenance to support the child, it seems unlikely there are many kids born after a ONS or to a woman who disappears between conception and birth, never to be heard of again, but i would love to know if the numbers dwarf the NRPs paying little or no maintenance for children they know perfectly well exist.

Have you any stats?

Jaquetta

Sorry but you are incorrect. The mother can register a child alone. Download ‘Statutory declaration of parentage’ (PDF, 29KB)

"The mother can choose to register the birth on her own if she isn’t married to the child’s father. The father’s details won’t be included on the birth certificate."

I dont think im the angry one here.

Parental leave is not available to single fathers. It is controlled by the mother. If she chooses, the father does not get the parental. Also, as i understand it, the mother has to be eligible for Maternity leave before shared parental leave is available. That is not equality.

Surely, equality is the aim here, isnt it?

How can it be right that a father can be kept in the dark about his child.

Ah, I see it is your first thread, rich.

With respect to the birth certificate, a woman is only allowed to put the father on without him being present if they are married. Otherwise the father can come with her and be afded

Dd2 used to come out with stuff like that oh it is a boys top or girls can't she did grow out of it I think it is an age where they are hearing stuff at school seeing lunch boxes etc they are just trying to work out whats what I honestly don't its because you are a sahm . Families do whatever they need to do to function if you keep saying this and challange him as to why he thinks this he will grow out of it