Modern fomance

'Rejected' probably a bit unfair but that's how I felt. 'Turned down' for whatever reason is probably more accurate

I've asked 2 men and been rejected both times 😬

I've asked. First had a girlfriend already, 1 was gay, 1 was, "You're really lovely, and with the right man..." yeah, yeah. Haven't bothered again.

I've asked several men on dates (can't remember exact numbers, but I did online dating for a while and did not see the point waiting to be asked). All yes responses on there, FWIW.

In real life I made the first move with all the men I dated. Also had a couple of memorable 'no' responses, but they just weren't interested. I could be misunderstanding but I don't get the impression they were offended to be asked.

I asked out every single one of my boyfriends including DH.

Grimarse - I don't think so, but then things have changed a lot since I was 20. For 20- somethings now, it's probably very normal?

If I think of the general type men I know these days (in their 40s), they may be a bit taken aback to be asked on a date, but not offended. They would probably go (either because they wanted to or because they wouldn't know how to turn the woman down ), but then still try to insist on paying, etc. As PAQ says, there are various types of men, so you can usually gauge how asking them out is likely to go down.

Just by way of unofficial research - how many women on here have ever asked a man on a date? What was the reaction?

I'm 39 now, so no idea which generational group I would fall into if I was dating "these days".

When I read the MN posts in Relationships, etc, it seems to me that all women want is a certain level of consistency and effort. It's so easy with OLD and Tinder to have a kind of "sweet shop mentality". Arranging dates via text, etc is convenient, but can mean it's difficult to know where you're at with someone. Rather than grand gestures or "wooing", it seems that a lot of women just want to know where they stand more than anything else. I expect this is the case with many of the men too.

DH was quite "old fashioned" in the way he asked me out, the way we dated and the way he proposed after 3 months. This was 15 years ago, but what I appreciated more than any "romantic gesture" was the fact that he never messed me around.

Also, I agree that if you really don't see any potential, there's not a lot a man can do in the way of persuasion. Maybe though, in some borderline cases where you just need to get to know someone a bit better, simply being honest and not playing games could move things along. This has to work both ways, of course.

Good on your daughter!

And, gosh yes, I have the same reaction to the 'he won't propose' posts.

I know plenty of men who are quite shy, too, and who would love to be asked out. So I don't think there is any need to slate someone for preferring that type of relationship, at all. And it doesn't mean you're never going to enjoy 'romance' - it can be very romantic to ask someone else out, in my view!

I think the main thing to convince me to go on a date would be to ask. I'm not psychic, so I won't be magically turning up in a pub if no one asks me.

Not being already married also helps. And me having a free space in my diary.

I'very only been on an actual date a couple of times or so in my life, so these days, I'd probably be tempted to say yes just from curiosity. I suspect this isn't the sort of breathless anticipation some men might be hoping for.

I also dislike the idea that there should be a concrete 'something' men can do to get a date. It just sounds very cynical, as if men are supposed to 'win' dates by doing the right thing, and we don't have the right to say no because they've gone through steps 1-5 in order. IME, only men who are really unpleasant think like this, but they are out there.

Absolutely this. I'm not some prize to be won (and I hate how many movies use that as part of the plot) - there's nothing you can do to get a date from me, other than be someone I find attractive, and that's something you already are, that I have yet to discover through getting to know you (at least a little), not something you do.

Well, yeah, but no, but....

The point about only men can ask for a date is a good one. I have seen umpteen posts across MN where women are in various states of upset or anger because 'he won't propose' or 'he won't ask me to move in'. And I just think 'My God, you're an adult - you ask ffs!^ There is a view in our society that it is still a male duty to 'make all the moves'. It needs to change. I know my daughter asked her boyfriend for the first date, so I have done my bit for the revolution!

D'you think?

I think it would be funny if they were the same age - and even funnier if the ages were the other way around, actually.

But yes, something can be funny and you can still say it doesn't reflect reality, absolutely.

I think your post conclusively disproves the theory that humour doesn't stand up to critical analysis, though!

Isn't the stereotyping of the generational differences the actual nub of the humour? Wouldn't removing them kill the joke? Which goes to prove the point that humour very rarely stands up to critical analysis because is it usually about the absurd. It takes extremes in order to make it's point, and can't be judged on the same basis as an academic piece of work. Maybe in some walks of life there is no place for it.

I can understand that, vestal. I find it stunning, in 2016, that some people really don't believe women might like to make the first move, and might genuinely be put off by men who do it.

If you are the type who obviously prefers not to be 'wooed' and would want to do your own asking, what's wrong with that? It's not circular thinking. It's just remembering that it's not forbidden for women to ask men out.

I also dislike the idea that there should be a concrete 'something' men can do to get a date. It just sounds very cynical, as if men are supposed to 'win' dates by doing the right thing, and we don't have the right to say no because they've gone through steps 1-5 in order. IME, only men who are really unpleasant think like this, but they are out there.

Anyway. I think the youtube film is quite funny, but I cannot see my granny being remotely amused about someone punching someone else. Or indeed about someone not taking no for an answer. I think it's utter bullshit that a generation of nice old ladies used to just love all of this stuff. We've got to remember there are loads of women in their 20s who'd find it 'romantic' that their bloke started a pub fight over them, and lots of women in their 80s who live on lesbian separatist communes, and maybe stop stereotyping a bit, right?!

"I wouldn't join any club that'd have me as a member".

An ex-BF had a friend (misogynist) who wouldn't go out with anyone who would sleep with him.

So I think you thinking is a bit circular there. Any guy who gets you (and is inclined to talk to you to get to know you, perhaps to get in your pants, perhaps just to get to know you, see where it goes) knows not to bother, so doesn't. You're excluding the (decent) ones from the get go!

Because they don't "get" me. A man who has taken the time to get to know me would know that it is pointless to try to "woo" me

But according to you men only talk to me with genuine interest and attention if they want to get in my pants-ie men never take the time to get to know without this ulterior motive.

How do you know that women who talk to you really like you?

Because they don't get anything out of spending time with me if they don't.

How do you know that men who talk to you aren't asking for a date because, following a conversation, they have discovered that you are an interesting/funny/whatever person?

Because they don't "get" me. A man who has taken the time to get to know me would know that it is pointless to try to "woo" me.

I don't really see why wooing can't be mutual. I see it more like Nooka's second courtship style activity and agree with deydo that it's a bit more of an iterative process. I know my relationship with DH is at it's best when we are both actively wooing the other, a bit like a dance. So I suppose wooing for me would be "a conscious attempt to let another person know that you like them, that you want them to see your best self and that they are prepared to put in the effort to find out the things/activities that make comfortable/make you tick/make you laugh as an attempt to show that they will be a considerate, motivated friend or partner should you chose to deepen the relationship". It's just doing a preliminary version of the work it takes to keep a relationship healthy.

There's pursuing someone who isn't interested and applying undue/unwanted pressure. But that's more like grooming than wooing.

Vestal - If a man asks you on a date, that's fair enough isn't it? I agree with you that you'll basically know whether you are interested or not, regardless of anything he may do in the way of persuasion. But if you like him, I don't think you need to worry too much about his motives. He probably finds you attractive AND interesting. Even if he does want sex, this is a very different thing to expecting it. The ball is in your court there. Just enjoy it otherwise.

How do you know that women who talk to you really like you?
How do you know that men who talk to you aren't asking for a date because, following a conversation, they have discovered that you are an interesting/funny/whatever person?

Even homosexual men ? Or men who don't find you physically attractive? How is this theory "confirmed"

I haven't met many homosexual men, and as for men who don't find me physically attractive, I have no way of knowing that.

My experience is that most of the men who have chosen to talk to me instead of anyone else when given a choice eventually asked for a date.

Possibly that is because I am not a very interesting person, and I admit that women don't often choose to talk to me, either, but with women, at least I know if they talk to me that they really like me.

It is really disappointing to find out that someone was only interested in talking to me because of my looks, and I am not fond of the notion that acting friendly towards a woman will eventually make her fall in love.

@nooka: PassiveAgressiveQueen asked what could convince us to give a man a date. And my answer to that is: Nothing.

Nooka- sorry, my comment wasn't directed at you. I didn't take your reply as being they way you think.

Oops, that came out a bit poorly. I meant to say that It's not the way I think.