"Every woman is beautiful" and feminism

Did you read the dove advertising call on here? It was hilarious. Sadly deleted though.
I'd take Dove a lot more seriously if they actually had some normal people on rather than beautiful women who just don't quite fit our stereotypical version of "beauty"

Sue, yes my Dd, (7) is very very interested in the way she looks- way more than anyone I know. Argh.

She says 'am I beautiful?' And I say 'you are more than beautiful- you are hard-working, kind, funny etc...'

(She's like 'yeah, mum, but do I have pretty hair?'...)

My only way to deal with this is to try to balance by telling my kids how beautiful they/parts of them are (beautiful curls/eyes etc) - they're both boys, and it's not the only thing, but I don't want them to hear girls getting all this particular type of praise and thinking that only girls get it (this may be backwards thinking - I don't want them under any pressure, but I also don't want them thinking that prettiness is the most important thing for a girl to be).

And that bloody diet coke advert - 20 years ago and people still go on about it - didn't the new series they tried to push about 3 years ago turn into a giant flop? I live abroad alot, and in the UK watch my TV on demand, so I don't know (and don't really hang out with people, so I don't know what other people thought)

FreshWaterSelkie I suppose what he's saying is a variation of what I tell my DDs when they ask if they are beautiful (don't get me started on what I think of the world that makes a child ask that question), I tell them that the people who love them will always think they are beautiful. They find that quite unsatisfactory but I really want them to think of beauty as being in the eye of the beholder rather than a particular physical appearance. I do spent a lot of time telling them how funny and smart and creative and hard working they are.

But completely agree that when you have asked him not to say it he should try and stop.

I like the reverse sexism for people who think it's the same for men but I'm not sure how much of an effect it has, maybe chips away at the block a bit, e.g. David Cameron's shoes. Makes me laugh anyway, not least because it appears David Cameron only has two pairs of shoes.

I agree. If a woman in the public eye is being body shamed then well meaning women on MN and elsewhere will always dash in to "defend" her with "but she's not fat, she's a perfectly healthy normal size!" "She's a beautiful older woman with lovely eyes" or whatever. I absolutely hate that because it's so totally missing the point. Especially if as usual the woman in question is in the public eye for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with her appearance. If (say) the Booker Prize winner is fat then she's fat. If people are having a go at her for being fat then the correct response is "Fuck off, she's a novelist not a jump jockey". The correct response is not "oh don't be mean, she looks like a perfectly healthy size 16 to me." If someone says that, say, Steve Buscemi looks like he's slept in his face then crowds of people don't say "don't be so mean he's really handsome in a real world way!" Because he's allowed to be a good, well paid, in demand actor regardless of his looks.

(Caveat, I admit that the weight thing is a bit more complex than that - if the glossies are having a go at Kate Moss for having 25 grammes of visible stomach fat if you enlarge the photo and use a microscope then that's genuinely unhealthy for all women).

I agree with you OP

Insisting we are all outwardly beautiful is implying that 'beauty' is essential for happiness, success etc

I haven't got a problem with emphasising that beauty comes in many forms but I don't like being told that I need to believe I'm beautiful to feel valued

There has been research that says that complimenting someone actually makes them feel wore because they are reminded that something that is largely out of their control is a very important thing

Oh, this. My husband like to tell me I'm beautiful. I'm quite torn. On the one hand, I think it comes from a good place, and I don't want to be a miserable cow about it.

On the other hand, I've asked him not to do it, because I really don't care much about my appearance. He says the fact I don't care is what makes me beautiful. But he still does it, though I ask him not to, so he's not doing it for me, he's doing it for him, IYSWIM? I wish he'd tell me I'm funny, or clever instead.

If you bring this up in the company of men though they will tell you how they are pressured into having a body like that diet coke advert man etc etc etc... Obviously NAMALT etc etc but it is tedious to the extreme.

I agree msrisotto - that's why I think it is so dangerous and horrible to comment on women's looks - especially if they are say sportswomen or writers or whatever. I am NOT good looking and I remember as a child wanting to be a writer and hearing someone comment on a female writer (can't remember which one!) as not being a looker. I can remember getting a sinking feeling and thinking "oh, you actually have to be beautiful to do anything".

Yes, they might as well say "Every woman is beautiful WHICH IS GOOD BECAUSE THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS".
Funny how there isn't a similar campaign to reassure men that they too are all good looking. No, because we don't hold me to the same standard. There are far more ugly male actors, successful males in the world because we don't value their looks as the most or only important thing about them.

There has been research that says that complimenting someone actually makes them feel wore because they are reminded that something that is largely out of their control is a very important thing. If we complimented them on their achievements or hard work, it might be different.

I get what you're saying.

The benchmark is still beauty. It's only what qualifies as beauty that's changed, rather than saying "beauty as a benchmark of a woman's worth is horseshit". Not very progressive at all, when you think about it.

But they have to sell stuff, and they probably wouldn't get far by telling everyone it's OK to be a minger

I don't like it either I think it's patronising and puts too much emphasis on looks.

No, every woman is not beautiful but that's ok because a woman is worth more than her looks