Why are people so defensive towards alleged rapists?

KindDo: "Maybe half" is a statistic.
Tychos: "Us" is all women and people like Ayeamorak make us all look ridiculous.

Every second man may have done this. Think of all the men we have ever met, no matter how briefly. Every other one of them may raped. Perhaps the enormity of this is too great, so we create rape myths in order to cope.

The enormity of men being rapists (or at least sex abusers) is huge. That's why I get so frustrated with people saying that men aren't a risk to women. They blatantly are and there's no way for a woman to tell if a man she meets is a rapist or a nice guy.

grim I think (? Sorry if I'm wrong) that you took offence to the phrase schroedingers rapist on another thread. But what you said above, that's what we mean about shroedingers rapist

www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/09/05/cdc-nearly-1-in-5-women-have-been-raped/

From a slightly different perspective, I wonder how many people are booking Cliff Richard for gigs these days...

Loads, because the general consensus is that the poor darling was framed by the evil machinations of someone who was just after the money. Same as they were for Rolf Harris, Max Clifford, Alan Johnson and all the other high profile rape cases recently.

Of course it isn't, but the notion that an accusation of rape effectively has no significant impact on the target of that accusation is quite clearly nonsense.

Thanks for the inference that I have mental health problems, a tad ablist, but this is MN after all.

It is not merely a notion that being accused of rape has no significant impact on the man. Apart from in rare cases such as Hairy's husband, most men who have been falsely accused go back to their families, jobs and lives with few if any questions asked. Even and especially when the "false accusation" hasn't been tested in court.

I know two men who were "falsely accused" of rape. Neither were tried, neither of the victims were tried either, the men just walked straight back into their lives. One of the women committed suicide a while after because she had been hounded out her home, job and the area she had been brought up in and his family would simply not leave her be, because she had dared to try and bring her attacker to justice. The other woman has left the country, for the same reasons.

If those were the only two instances of this occurring, then you might have a point. But now, with every dropped charge and 'no-criming' a woman who has already been a victim of a violent assault is further victimised by people who think it's their job to point out that all women lie.

It's also been my recent experience that a man who has been convicted and imprisoned for viewing images of child sex abuse online, and storing a couple of thousand of them on his computer so, in the scheme of things, not so prolific a consumer of those images has had people falling over themselves to excuse his behaviour and suggest that if those images weren't so freely available, then he wouldn't have done it.

So, no, in general, with very few exceptions, I stand by my comment that very few men face any stigma from being "falsely accused" of sexual crimes.

Maybe Aye's suggested statistic also answer's the OP's question - Can anyone offer an explanation as to why people take this attitude with rape, and only rape?

If fifty per cent of men are rapists, that is shocking beyond comprehension. The only comparable crime to rape or sexual assault is murder, and I think we can safely say that fifty per cent of men are not murderers. So we are left with the bald possibility that one man in every two that we will every meet (statistically) has committed the second most serious crime that it is possible to inflict on another human being.

Every second man may have done this. Think of all the men we have ever met, no matter how briefly. Every other one of them may raped. Perhaps the enormity of this is too great, so we create rape myths in order to cope.

redacto
Who are "us"?

Redactio
Is this what you meant?
AyeAmarok Fri 29-Jul-16 19:36:22
I think it comes down to the fact that a large proportion of men, maybe even half?, have had sex with someone they have had to take advantage of, coerce, manipulate or force to have sex with them. Be that through picking someone random who is very drunk at a club and getting her away from her friends who would keep her safe, to making a move on a female friend when she's drunk, to telling lies to get her into bed, etc.

If so, no where does she really mention statistics, and she put a question mark anyway. She does give examples which cover so many possible scenarios where there is some sort of coercion that it may not be too extreme, or fanatical, of her to suggest that maybe even half ? of men may have had sex in this way at some point in their life.

And then, if to the etc you add men getting sex from a woman with special needs; or a man getting sex after pushing on with full sex, even when there is reluctance on the woman's part, after some petting: they are already together, all he has to do is..push down.. lie on top, just a little more natural weight...no one even quite knows.... Maybe, if not quit half of men have done this, an awful lot have.

AyeAmarok said I think ot comes down to the fact that a large proportion of men, maybe even half?, have had sex with someone they have had to take advantage of, coerce, manipulate or force to have sex with them.

Is that a world-wide statistic, or just based in the country where you live? The corollary of that statement is that, wherever that stat is based, fifty per cent of the women have been raped. I have never seen an estimate that high, even on Fwr. It is truly shocking.

The trouble is that ayeamorak is just making up statistics, It's this type of fanaticism that is always used against us.

Fucking hell that's grim kind

To add to ayeamarok's post, I think that some women who disbelieve rape accusations are also avoiding the fact that they themselves have been raped but it is too painful to accept that not only have they been the victim of a horrific violent crime but that the perpetrator was someone they love and trusted.

There are no more false allegations of rape than there are false allegations for any other crime.

www.rapecrisisscotland.org.uk/campaigns-projects/false-allegations/

WilL
This case you posted is absolutely horrendous. It means basically it doesn't matter what a woman says if the man wants sex.

"I was saying no," she said. "I was not coming out all guns blazing. I thought I should be adequate saying no. It should not matter what tone of voice I was saying it."

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Morgan asked: "Did you mean 'No, not now,' as if you did not mean it?"

"I meant it," she said.

"Were you saying no but not meaning no?"

"I would not say that," she said. "I was also pulling my underwear back up."

Morgan also took issue with an earlier exchange between the pair, in which Kuggeleijn asked whether the woman was "on the pill" – to which she had said yes.

"Did you not recognise that telling him you were on the pill in those circumstances was you telling him you wanted to have sex with him?" he asked.

PinkyofPie Thu 28-Jul-16 15:52:49
That commentor actually works for a public sector body. I have screen shotted his comment and will be sending to his work

Well done, Pinky.

Sometimes I like to imagine that all of the NAMALTers, derailers, hand-wavers, GFs, what-about-the-menzers and any other posters that don't seem to be on a feminist board in good faith, are actually bots or sock puppets whose function is to make posts regurgitating all of the weakest possible woman hating tropes so as to give all of the brilliant, bright feminists here a chance to air all their best rebuttals

I think ot comes down to the fact that a large proportion of men, maybe even half?, have had sex with someone they have had to take advantage of, coerce, manipulate or force to have sex with them. Be that through picking someone random who is very drunk at a club and getting her away from her friends who would keep her safe, to making a move on a female friend when she's drunk, to telling lies to get her into bed, etc.

All these men think this is part of "getting sex". It's a very murky spectrum, which not too far along becomes rape. But they can't conceive that they are a bit rapey, so they defend rapists to assuage their own subconscious guilt.

The men in the OP have been convicted. They aren't alleged rapists - they are rapists.

Why are you shouting at Toads, A11? Maybe if you said which bits enraged you, we could talk about why you disagree, rather than just crashing in and rolling your eyes like a stroppy teen, which you've done twice on this thread now. Anyone would think you didn't really want to engage in a debate.

Toad

Because THE QUESTION WAS ABOUT WHY PEOPLE DEFEND ALLEGED RAPISTS.

God, this conversation is pointless.

Fine: rape is bad. Society: bad.

Is there actually any evidence that being falsely accused of rape is worse than being falsely accused of any other crime?

People always trot out the "false rape accusations ruins lives" and "of course being falsely accused of rape is worse than being falsely accused of other crimes" (they then usually go on to compare being falsely accused of rape to being falsely accused of stealing. Because you know obviously rape and theft are the only two crimes that someone could be falsely accused of ) but nobody ever backs those claims up.

I don't doubt that there have been some men who have had their lives ruined because of false accusations but people have also had their lives ruined because of being falsely accused of child abuse and murder...

So what I would like to know is is there actually any evidence that being falsely accused of rape is more likely to be damaging than being falsely accused of other serious crime? Is there any evidence that people falsely accused of rape are more likely to go on to have their lives ruined than people falsely accused of child abuse or murder or torture or animal abuse...?

AFAIK there isn't and I've never found any that suggest being falsely accused of rape is more damaging than being falsely accused of other crime.

Pinky just out of curiousity, now that they have been found guilty have there been any comments from their supporters claiming that they are innocent and they have been wrongly convicted? Because it wouldn't surprise me if there has been or will be at some point .

^
seem to be able

Why does every single bloody discussion about rape always end up turning into a discussion about false accusations?

People have been falsely accused of all kinds of crimes. Name any crime and I guarantee that people will have been falsely accused of it.

Despite this people don't jump into discussions about theft/assault/child abuse/GBH/whatever it is that is being discussed to say things like "but remember there are people who make things up and lie about these things" or "don't forget innocent people have been falsely accused of theft/assault/child abuse/GBH/whatever it is that is being discussed" do they?

Yet we can't see to be able to have a discussion about rape without someone bringing up false accusations.

Why do people feel the need to constantly bring up false accusations when talking about rape but not when it's other crimes being talked about, no matter how stigmatized those other crimes may be?

Peril = people

The conviction rates for rape cases that come to trial are similar to those of other bodily harm crimes, IIRC.

The earlier steps in the process are important.

Peril knowing that "innocent until proven guilty" applies both ways - a not guilty verdict doesn't mean it was a false accusation;