Why are people so defensive towards alleged rapists?

Anonymity for other crimes (until found guilty) is worth exploring

Right but you can't single out one crime as being somehow special and grant anonymity to people accused of that crime only.

If you're going to grant anonymity you have to treat all crimes the same and allow everyone to have anonymity.

However you can't pick and choose which crimes you think are more deserving of anonymity for the accused and only give it to that crime(s) and that crime(s) only.

Either everyone accused has anonymity or nobody does.

gone

Thanks for understanding re joke

And i belive that our justice system is very good and gives fair trials to those accused of any crimes

I know you are understanding it differently but my intention was to say that i think our system is very good and gives fair trials to the accused, maybe i should have said because

I dunno, i am struggling to read it anyway other than the way i intended...might be a bit tired though (or stupid )

Anyway i am still not retracting

Why arent you fussed about anonymity for those accused of other crimes?

I have stated the I personally think anonymity for a broader spectrum of crimes needs looking at. Our laws are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty - but that isn't the case.

Evidence please?

Sorry my mistake - separate postings

but the stigma or rape is far higher

You keep saying that but you still haven't given me any evidence that being accused of rape carries a bigger stigma.

So I'm going to ask you yet again - What evidence do you have that being accused of rape is more damaging and carries a bigger stigma than being accused of murder/child abuse/assaulting the elderly/arson/GBH/torturing animals etc?

Oh, and you highlight the first sentence and totally disregard the second, because why?

On a slightly unrelated note, rape apologists just love comparing rape to theft don't they?

Sometimes they take it one step further and compare false rape accusations to false accusations of theft.

Because rape and theft are just so similar aren't they?

It was just an example - quite clearly

How strange, toad. I do care about how society treats people who are accused of other crimes. Don't you? Anonymity for other crimes (until found guilty) is worth exploring, in my view. Obviously there has to be a balance. But until found guilty, no punishment should begin, either by society or by the legal system.

No, rufus. You said it was a good justice system full-stop.

I probably should have realised that was a joke. Sorry.

Personally I wouldn't be Against anonymity in a lot broader spectrum, but the stigma or rape is far higher, and as previously discussed evidence isn't always clear cut.

Yes I am aware that I said arson twice there

A rape allegation is clearly more damaging than a burglary allegation

You do realise that rape and burglary are not the only two crimes that exist, right?

Rape is not the only stigmatised crime.

So I'll ask you again. What evidence do you have that being accused of rape is more damaging and carries a bigger stigma than being accused of murder/child abuse/arson/assaulting the elderly/arson/GBH etc?

So you're being accused of rape or child abuse? Oh dear. Don't worry, we'll look out for you and protect you. We'll keep your identity hidden so these nasty accusations don't destroy your life.

On the other hand, you're being accused of murder/arson/assaulting the elderly/stealing from charities/animal abuse/GBH but quite frankly I don't care dear. I have no interest in protecting you because you're not being accused of the crime I deem worthy of protection. So I'm going to throw you to the wolves and let you be named and shamed regardless of what damage this may or may not do if you're innocent.

A rape allegation is clearly more damaging than a burglary allegation - why would you even need to think about that?!?

Gone has said that she thinks people accused of child abuse should be granted anonymity.

People accused of other crime are fair game in her book though no matter how stigmatised and damaging being accused of said crime may be.

gone

I am not retracting anything, i said that it was good and gives fair trials to the ACCUSED

Why arent you fussed about anonymity for other crimes?

However, as to the tariffs for the crimes, it is possible that someone convicted of perverting the course of justice with a malicious accusation could potentially get a higher sentence than someone got for a rape conviction

Yes it is possible. I think lay people underestimate the significance of crimes like perverting the course of justice, contempt of court and perjury. The individual act might seem trivial but they are fundamental to why laws work.

However if anyone does manage to find any then please let me know

So have you managed to find any evidence to support your claim that a rape accusation is more damaging than accusations of other crime gone? Because I haven't.

gone

Sorry that was a joke you know like

"I am really upset to miss school tomorrow"

"Well you are hiding it well"

Should have put a grin there

I'm not hiding anything well. How would saying I thought this should apply to child abuse accusations be hiding it well?

The OP mentioned anonymity in connection with rape; not unreasonably, that's what the thread turned out to be about.

Or do you just want to accuse me of hiding something?

You've said you think the justice system is very good. Are you now retracting that?

gone

Why arent you fussed about anonymity for other crimes?

Or are you concerned but you are just hiding it well

I also didn't say that i agree with how rape trials are conducted, just that i think trials are generally fair to the ACCUSED

mammoth I think people are more interested in getting more convictions for rape than this thread would indicate. The OP didn't ask about that, however, hence the direction of the thread. Start a thread about that and I will post on it.

Regarding false accusation vs a 'not guilty' verdict...Are you saying that even if a man is found 'innocent', in your book he probably still did it (given the low rate of false accusations) therefore he should not be treated as 'innocent'? If so, I find that unjust. Campaign for reform in the legal system all you like, but don't push for a society in which someone has absolutely no way of clearing his name because society automatically and irreversibly finds him guilty. Otherwise we're little more than a baying mob.

I thought that you were responding to my points rufus when you said that all people had to blether about were false accusations. So I said that I wasn't talking about false accusations. I now realise you must have been thinking of something else entirely.

Interesting that you don't have a problem with how rape is tried in the justice system. I'd got the impression that this was a problem for feminists and with good reason.

I don't think men are treated unjustly by the courts. I was making the point that if feminists want men to care about women being treated unfairly, they need to ensure that it is reciprocated. Being reluctant to see men's anonymity protected until a guilty verdict, despite the huge amount of damage done to men's lives when the accusation is publicised and there is no guilty verdict, does not smack of concern for justice or the welfare of people in general. The suicide case mentioned earlier is a good example - it can't be proved that the suicide and the accusation were connected so feminists are anxious to hang onto that, because otherwise they might be obliged to think seriously about how the situation might have been from his point of view, and they're not interested in doing that.

Feminists may not see the world this way, but I personally think you need to be seen as reasoned and credible in order to have your voice count. If you're calling for compassion or justice, you also need to be perceived as a voice of compassion and justice. By not giving a shiny shit about any other group but themselves (in fact it seems that many feminists' attitude to men is far more antagonistic than just indifferent), feminists are compromising the integrity of their position and undermining their own voice in the conversation. Obviously that is just my opinion...