What Makes A Woman?

You're saying if a transwoman passes, they're a woman? Nah. Woman = Adult human female. It's not in the eye of the beholder.

If a transwoman passes they can experience one facet of sexism. A woman on the receiving end of the same sexism has knowledge of her female body plus female socialisation too.

quencher if woman is purely a social construct, why is it that 99.5% of women are also female? Why haven't women who are unhappy with gender stereotyping "women" simply opted into "man"?

Also we don't say butch when referring to a woman. I would just say my friend. It's a specific description of a look the way I might say goth or black or white. There is also femme or "mum hair" they are still women, they aren't out of the parameter of adult female yes , why would people come up with words like that? I would still say it's because of the reason I have given above. Your use of the word the perimeter means they are not woman enough to be on the inside. You are saying they are on the outside of what woman is but still not yet man.

Quencher, if the website puts forward what you mean, can you please just follow the website's example and use woman or (adult human) female to mean sex and femininity to mean gender.

Because then you wouldn't have to keep explaining really basic stuff that feminists already understand, just because you want to use language in your own unique way.

Sorry SW, I don't know what that means.

you're saying feminists should be fighting for those who perform feminity, rather than those who are female? No that is not what am saying. Each sex has been ascribed a gender. We all know which gender belongs to which sex. Gender is manmade idea, while sex is natural occurrence in the human body. We use gender to segregate and mistreat females in our society. When a feminist is fighting against injustice, they are fighting against preconceived idea of what a female is through what characteristics we put forward as woman.
Feminist are not just fighting how females are treated in regards to what their biology can do ( ie giving birth ) but also what you wear and on how it can define you as a female person. So if a man was able to have the complete look with what we conceive to be the standard woman, they would receive sexism and will be judged the same way a human female would if they where dressed the same way. It's what is in front of the sexist. They see what looks like a woman and by that they have stereotypes of what women are.

A Person who's body was designed to produce eggs, things may have gone wrong to affect this ability but it was the intent and that is the human female. Humans separate us from being referred to as amphibians or any other living female species out there.

I have a vague idea of what cis is because I have seen it debated on Mn. I have no interest in calling my female species cis women. That is just adding another label on top of what is already disadvantaging.

^*Sex" refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women.

"Gender" refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women.*^
This is what I have been trying to say from the beginning. These roles, behaviours, activities change over time. They are relative and not absolute. It's society that makes it normal. When in America football is a girls sport and in the uk it's seen as boys sport. That is relative. What feminist would do is try and fight for the rights for women to be able to play the sport in the uk without it being deemed macho and they can earn the same amount according to their standard.
The website you got from describes the way i have been putting it forward.

I'm new to the app can someone tell me how I mark what post I am on?

quencher you're talking bollocks

Mn! Blasted mobile

American posters on man know fanny

Also we don't say butch when referring to a woman. I would just say my friend. It's a specific description of a look the way I might say goth or black or white. There is also femme or "mum hair" they are still women, they aren't out of the parameter of adult female

Which is slang for a vulva, not an arse, in case US posters are now confused!

Fanny!

I don't see how it is breaking down gender to make a word to encapsulate some totally irrelevant culturally specific stereotypes when we could just have a word for human with a Danny

Quencher

I need a definition of a cis woman please.

If you cannot answer then your argument, as long winded as it is, is irrelevant.

What is a cis woman if a woman is not an adult female human. This is trans terminology that they want to inflict on us, surely it is definable.

And then what is the correct word for adult female human if it is not woman, and again for an adult male human if it is not man?

Gender is masculine and feminine. Not man and woman.

I also wonder why these organisations are able to explain gender inequality (sexism) so succinctly, while you require a massive wall of text to explain what basic sexism is to feminists.

I think that's the purpose of collectively shared understanding of what words mean. It means we don't have to write hundreds of words to explain the meaning of a word.

I guess what I'm wondering quencher, is why does your definition differ to that by the Oxford dictionary, WHO and the UN?

And here's the link for that:

unstats.un.org/unsd/genderstatmanual/What-are-gender-stats.ashx

And here's the UN also stating that 'woman' refers to sex not gender:

'The term “gender” has often been wrongly used in association with data. “Gender disaggregation” or “data disaggregated by gender” are incorrect terms. Gender statistics are disaggregated by sex, an individual-level characteristic commonly recorded in censuses, surveys and administrative records, not by gender, a social concept relevant at the level of a population group (Corner, 2003). When data on demographic, social or economic characteristics are collected in the field, it is the sex of a person that is recorded, as female (woman) or male (man), not the gender. Sex-disaggregated data, however, when analysed, have the capacity to reveal differences in women’s and men’s lives that are the result of gender roles and expectations.'

A Person who's body was designed to produce eggs, things may have gone wrong to affect this ability but it was the intent.

Cancelly- particularly good points made!

Do you mean the category woman is unrelated to the category female it's is related but it's ascribed by us. We say what it is. Female is absolute while woman or man can be relative. ( it changes depending on place, time by people)

Woman has always meant adult human female the characteristics of woman, man, girl boy changes even though the gender stays connected to the sex ascribed to it.

You appear to be saying that a women is anyone who looks like a woman, unless that person is biologically proven to be a man. That is exactly the point. It's what we see and are taught to believe. There is no science behind it but society's belief system of what is the norm ( what a particular society things is normal ) for that group ie women or men. When you start talking about body parts you are referring to sex not gender.

Unless you are saying that butch/gender non-conforming women are not women because they don't conform with societal expectations and stereotypes? Do you think gender non conforming women are not women? I think you answered your own question here. Why should a female who looks more like a man should be called butch? It's because you don't see her as woman enough to be called woman. You have a set idea in your head of what woman is and being butch is not it. It's not your fault but society's conditioning of where to place people. And the reason why people say butch instead of men is because men are dominant and anything that does not live up to the standard of man is referred to as other.

Being a lesbian wouldn't save a woman/girl from FGM, rape, possible need for an abortion, child marriage etc. Nor would a female who identified as a man be saved from them, it's a female issue. That is why it has no boundaries because the things being affected are biological.

And here's a link to that:

apps.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/

This is the World Health Organisation's definition, which I think is what most people understand by sex, gender, woman and femininity:

^What do we mean by "sex" and "gender"?

Sometimes it is hard to understand exactly what is meant by the term "gender", and how it differs from the closely related term "sex".

"Sex" refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women.

"Gender" refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women.

To put it another way:

"Male" and "female" are sex categories, while "masculine" and "feminine" are gender categories.

Aspects of sex will not vary substantially between different human societies, while aspects of gender may vary greatly.

Some examples of sex characteristics :

Women menstruate while men do not
Men have testicles while women do not
Women have developed breasts that are usually capable of lactating, while men have not
Men generally have more massive bones than women
Some examples of gender characteristics :

In the United States (and most other countries), women earn significantly less money than men for similar work
In Viet Nam, many more men than women smoke, as female smoking has not traditionally been considered appropriate
In Saudi Arabia men are allowed to drive cars while women are not
In most of the world, women do more housework than men.^

So quencher you're saying feminists should be fighting for those who perform feminity, rather than those who are female?

What exactly would that look like? What would the top priority of such a movement be?